TRUMP, What the hell is going on

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In all fairness, I'm blaming China. The CCP's handling has been atrocious and reckless, aided by the WHO.

There will be cases here as early as everyone else. We have the second most flights in the world to China I believe (can't find where I previously found that stat) 5 million people left Wuhan before the quarantine, it's the Chinese people I feel sorry for, they have been let down by the CCP again.

Edit: our media and especially the government have been very quiet about the CCP, mainly because we need them.
A lot of experts sadly disagrees with you there. And frankly sounds alot like what The Sun would print.

Don't you think it'll be more reckless and irresponsible to declare a pandemic when they didn't have a clue what they were dealing with at the time, hence it being called a ''novel coronavirus''. There would had been mass panic and hysteria.
Why would China even bother to share the genetic sequence so countries can quickly develop their own testing kits for its people if that was the case?
Why did a lot of other countries do well in controlling the spread of the virus? Because they took the warnings from the WHO seriously. Didn't South Korea and the US have the first confirmed case on the same day?
Another place that doesn't seem to get mentioned for its efforts. Hong Kong, 4 confirmed deaths. You would had thought HK would be one of the worst hit in the world, especially seeing as the HK/China borders were still open at the time.

If Trump had actually listened maybe the US wouldn't be the worst hit. :unsure:
 

DanFST

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A lot of experts sadly disagrees with you there. And frankly sounds alot like what The Sun would print.

Don't you think it'll be more reckless and irresponsible to declare a pandemic when they didn't have a clue what they were dealing with at the time, hence it being called a ''novel coronavirus''. There would had been mass panic and hysteria.
Why would China even bother to share the genetic sequence so countries can quickly develop their own testing kits for its people if that was the case?
Why did a lot of other countries do well in controlling the spread of the virus? Because they took the warnings from the WHO seriously. Didn't South Korea and the US have the first confirmed case on the same day?
Another place that doesn't seem to get mentioned for its efforts. Hong Kong, 4 confirmed deaths. You would had thought HK would be one of the worst hit in the world, especially seeing as the HK/China borders were still open at the time.

If Trump had actually listened maybe the US wouldn't be the worst hit. :unsure:
Printed by the Sun? You are so blinded by your hatred of Trump, you are actually trying to defend the disgusting CCP.

Who are these experts? as with Most things connected to the CCP, I have yet to see one that isn't benefitting in someway from them.

1) They may have had an idea what they were dealing with if they hadn't forced scientists to stop tests, destroy samples and censored any mention of the disease in December (Scientists were arrested for "spreading rumours") That would have bought the world months, and crucially stopped travel before the Chinese New Year. You must remember the brave Li Wenliang dying of covid, after getting arrested and still whistleblowing. After his death the CCP did an about turn and claimed him a Hero as it was already out in the public.

China is the one country which could have stopped this. Most citizens have no human rights, no access to real information. They can be quarantined just as easily as they disappear.

2) Samples weren't released until February, no independent scientist has been allowed into Wuhan to investigate the cause of the disease. We will never find out how this started.

3) No one has successfully controlled the spread of the virus, where in the world apart from Greenland is life normal? South Korea have done the "best" but there has been another outbreak, life is by no means normal there still. You are incorrect to pin this on the WHO. S Korea hit their peak 2 weeks before the WHO even declared it a pandemic.

How in anyway has the WHO helped them? They have has experience dealing with Sars, people wear masks anyway and they generally follow the rules.

4) Hong Kong is China now. If you are believing any of their data you are delusional. They built another new hospital on near the Russian border (miles away from Wuhan) mid april, despite only reporting 1000 cases countrywide since then. In the same time period 8 Wuhan funeral homes had deliveries of 40,000 urns.

Li Zehua (the journalist who recorded and reported school busses being turned into hearses, bodies leaving hospitals and brutality by CCP police) filmed his own arrest and disappeared for 2 months. He has now resurfaced saying how much he loves China, the CCP and the police. (what do you think happened to him)

100,000's have died in China, and the world will never know. Their families have no place to morn. Their stories will never be heard. It's desperately sad. This is another which you can add to the long list of tragedies caused by the CCP. I feel desperately sorry for the Chinese people, Censorship and human rights abuses are strong tools.
 

Hobbit

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Printed by the Sun? You are so blinded by your hatred of Trump, you are actually trying to defend the disgusting CCP.

Who are these experts? as with Most things connected to the CCP, I have yet to see one that isn't benefitting in someway from them.

1) They may have had an idea what they were dealing with if they hadn't forced scientists to stop tests, destroy samples and censored any mention of the disease in December (Scientists were arrested for "spreading rumours") That would have bought the world months, and crucially stopped travel before the Chinese New Year. You must remember the brave Li Wenliang dying of covid, after getting arrested and still whistleblowing. After his death the CCP did an about turn and claimed him a Hero as it was already out in the public.

China is the one country which could have stopped this. Most citizens have no human rights, no access to real information. They can be quarantined just as easily as they disappear.

2) Samples weren't released until February, no independent scientist has been allowed into Wuhan to investigate the cause of the disease. We will never find out how this started.

3) No one has successfully controlled the spread of the virus, where in the world apart from Greenland is life normal? South Korea have done the "best" but there has been another outbreak, life is by no means normal there still. You are incorrect to pin this on the WHO. S Korea hit their peak 2 weeks before the WHO even declared it a pandemic.

How in anyway has the WHO helped them? They have has experience dealing with Sars, people wear masks anyway and they generally follow the rules.

4) Hong Kong is China now. If you are believing any of their data you are delusional. They built another new hospital on near the Russian border (miles away from Wuhan) mid april, despite only reporting 1000 cases countrywide since then. In the same time period 8 Wuhan funeral homes had deliveries of 40,000 urns.

Li Zehua (the journalist who recorded and reported school busses being turned into hearses, bodies leaving hospitals and brutality by CCP police) filmed his own arrest and disappeared for 2 months. He has now resurfaced saying how much he loves China, the CCP and the police. (what do you think happened to him)

100,000's have died in China, and the world will never know. Their families have no place to morn. Their stories will never be heard. It's desperately sad. This is another which you can add to the long list of tragedies caused by the CCP. I feel desperately sorry for the Chinese people, Censorship and human rights abuses are strong tools.
Attached is a story that surfaced late Feb/early March. I have seen a few reports of it but nothing for the last 2 months. Be interesting to see how this pans out.

https://www.npr.org/2020/01/28/8004...-of-lying-about-ties-to-china?t=1589412392823
 
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Printed by the Sun? You are so blinded by your hatred of Trump, you are actually trying to defend the disgusting CCP.

Who are these experts? as with Most things connected to the CCP, I have yet to see one that isn't benefitting in someway from them.

1) They may have had an idea what they were dealing with if they hadn't forced scientists to stop tests, destroy samples and censored any mention of the disease in December (Scientists were arrested for "spreading rumours") That would have bought the world months, and crucially stopped travel before the Chinese New Year. You must remember the brave Li Wenliang dying of covid, after getting arrested and still whistleblowing. After his death the CCP did an about turn and claimed him a Hero as it was already out in the public.

China is the one country which could have stopped this. Most citizens have no human rights, no access to real information. They can be quarantined just as easily as they disappear.

2) Samples weren't released until February, no independent scientist has been allowed into Wuhan to investigate the cause of the disease. We will never find out how this started.

3) No one has successfully controlled the spread of the virus, where in the world apart from Greenland is life normal? South Korea have done the "best" but there has been another outbreak, life is by no means normal there still. You are incorrect to pin this on the WHO. S Korea hit their peak 2 weeks before the WHO even declared it a pandemic.

How in anyway has the WHO helped them? They have has experience dealing with Sars, people wear masks anyway and they generally follow the rules.

4) Hong Kong is China now. If you are believing any of their data you are delusional. They built another new hospital on near the Russian border (miles away from Wuhan) mid april, despite only reporting 1000 cases countrywide since then. In the same time period 8 Wuhan funeral homes had deliveries of 40,000 urns.

Li Zehua (the journalist who recorded and reported school busses being turned into hearses, bodies leaving hospitals and brutality by CCP police) filmed his own arrest and disappeared for 2 months. He has now resurfaced saying how much he loves China, the CCP and the police. (what do you think happened to him)

100,000's have died in China, and the world will never know. Their families have no place to morn. Their stories will never be heard. It's desperately sad. This is another which you can add to the long list of tragedies caused by the CCP. I feel desperately sorry for the Chinese people, Censorship and human rights abuses are strong tools.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=94MsoVGua_U
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/07/mike-pence-praises-china-unprecedented-coronavirus-transparency.html

Wonder if this guy has been paid off by the CCP?
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/us-cdc-had-very-good-224149977.html

Plus the fact a lockdown of 11 million people and building of 2 hospitals wasn't a clear sign of it being a serious matter, then I don't know what is? How many more signs does one need?

Dr Li who was a ophthalmologist had been discussing to other colleagues via WeChat of a possible virus circulating (Again, cannot stress this enough, NO-ONE knew at the time what they were dealing with), in which someone from the group has posted it online. Hence why the police ''reprimanded'' him as to not cause mass panic. Dr Li went back to work where sadly he contracted Covid and died from the virus.

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=AQQf2yoymu0&feature=emb_logo another paid CCP bot?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y76KoQLPyC8
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200131114748.htm so as to not look biased.

Are we talking about the same Hong Kong that's currently in turmoil atm and has been for the past 8-10months? Mass protests and riots. Practically destroying the whole place. And why is this? Is it because, like yourself they despise the CCP and they are fighting against the system. If anything, wouldn't they try to fuel the fire even worse and lie about its death numbers?

I am in no way defending the CCP, as I like to research it from both sides and then make an rational decision. The facts are there in black and white. You just need to find them. All governments are shady as hell.
Why has Trump and his administration from being supportive suddenly started the blame game? Simple answer, they messed up big time. They are failing massively and instead of taking the responsibility, they decide to throw their toys out of the pram.

''Most citizens have no human rights, no access to real information. They can be quarantined just as easily as they disappear''

Now this I'm sorry is just laughable. If they had no rights, why on earth would their own government build these massive modern super cities with advanced infrastructures. Around 800 million people out of poverty and still rising.
The China you probably picture, I guarantee is totally different and opposite to you're mindset of China.
 

Robster59

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Mudball

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And now Trump is having a go at his top infectious diseases expert as he's saying something that doesn't toe the line of what Trump is trying to make people believe.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52656959

The man is simply a megalomaniac. He doesn't care about anyone, just himeself and getting re-elected.
Wait for him to have a go at Robert DeNiro next
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world...-niro-on-coronavirus-lockdown-and-us-politics
He had a go at Jimmy Kemmel already.. DeNiro will be next

 
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And now Trump is having a go at his top infectious diseases expert as he's saying something that doesn't toe the line of what Trump is trying to make people believe.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52656959

The man is simply a megalomaniac. He doesn't care about anyone, just himeself and getting re-elected.
Wait for him to have a go at Robert DeNiro next
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world...-niro-on-coronavirus-lockdown-and-us-politics
Also recently attacked Joe Scarborough - MSNBC Morning News Host and former GoP US Congressman - and one of Trump's harshest critics - regurgitating a conspiracy story from 20 yrs ago that linked Scarborough to the death of an intern - subsequently shown to be totally unfounded.

This is the PotUS spouting this stuff for gawds sake. Apart from anything else, and it is a huge anything else, has he got nothing to better to do that tweet rubbish all the time...the man's a desperate aberration.
 

Mudball

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From where I sit, America needs a new third group, as the other two Parties are both so nuts and/or corrupt they both need replacing pronto. Or maybe HM The Queen should re-annex the US :)
You mean something like the Lib Dems or SNP?
 

DanFST

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''Most citizens have no human rights, no access to real information. They can be quarantined just as easily as they disappear''

Now this I'm sorry is just laughable. If they had no rights, why on earth would their own government build these massive modern super cities with advanced infrastructures. Around 800 million people out of poverty and still rising.
The China you probably picture, I guarantee is totally different and opposite to you're mindset of China.
I'm going to stop this conversation, as that comment has proved you are absolutely clueless. This has no relation to Trump as he has re-election for his final term. Xi Jinping removed that rule, so he's president for life.

1) Chinese have 1-3 million Uighurs in internment camps, solely because of their religion. No one knows what happens there, as no cameras can get in. Tibetans are also persecuted, religion is Illegal to CCP members and their families. Falun Gong is the most famous religious group to be persecuted. What happened to them? (TLDR: They harvested organs) no one knows if this is happening to Tibetans and Uighurs, but organ trade is still continuing...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...g-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes

2) Your fact of 800 million sounds very impressive! If Chinas population wasn't over 1.3 billion... the poorest 25% of households, own 1% of China's wealth. Not only that, China's quasi-apartheid like system means the poor can never move to the new areas, thus always having supply of cheap labour. Doesn't sound so great now does it? The rich are doing great! The majority however, not great.

3) Human rights defenders have been arrested and tortured, investigative journalists have been arrested an tortured. Not only that their families have been harassed. It's a common practise for the CCP to find landlords and remove said families, also removing their children from school. It's proven that the CCP will arrest and torture until a fake confession is made. And then obviously the CCP has complete control of the justice system.

As your point on HK, yes I can imagine these people aren't going to go easily into a dystopian, totalitarian state. Yes they have SARS experience, 97% wear masks all year round and they have the added mentality of trying to beat the Chinese where this came from. However HK's population is so dense, who controls the death numbers released. The CCP, and they haven't exactly been good at that have they? Unless you really believe 5x as many people have died in the Isle of man compared to HK.
 
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I'm going to stop this conversation, as that comment has proved you are absolutely clueless. This has no relation to Trump as he has re-election for his final term. Xi Jinping removed that rule, so he's president for life.

1) Chinese have 1-3 million Uighurs in internment camps, solely because of their religion. No one knows what happens there, as no cameras can get in. Tibetans are also persecuted, religion is Illegal to CCP members and their families. Falun Gong is the most famous religious group to be persecuted. What happened to them? (TLDR: They harvested organs) no one knows if this is happening to Tibetans and Uighurs, but organ trade is still continuing...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...g-organs-from-detainees-uk-tribunal-concludes

2) Your fact of 800 million sounds very impressive! If Chinas population wasn't over 1.3 billion... the poorest 25% of households, own 1% of China's wealth. Not only that, China's quasi-apartheid like system means the poor can never move to the new areas, thus always having supply of cheap labour. Doesn't sound so great now does it? The rich are doing great! The majority however, not great.

3) Human rights defenders have been arrested and tortured, investigative journalists have been arrested an tortured. Not only that their families have been harassed. It's a common practise for the CCP to find landlords and remove said families, also removing their children from school. It's proven that the CCP will arrest and torture until a fake confession is made. And then obviously the CCP has complete control of the justice system.

As your point on HK, yes I can imagine these people aren't going to go easily into a dystopian, totalitarian state. Yes they have SARS experience, 97% wear masks all year round and they have the added mentality of trying to beat the Chinese where this came from. However HK's population is so dense, who controls the death numbers released. The CCP, and they haven't exactly been good at that have they?

OK, lets just agree I'm ''absolutely clueless'' then.....but you have sadly been ''brainwashed'' by mainstream media.

Unfortunately the link you posted by the Guardian holds no weight. After a little digging around you see the 'China Tribunal' that the Guardian has picked the story up from, has connections to the Epoch Times. Which funnily enough has connections to the Falun Gong. :eek:
The same Falun Gong that believes that Trump was “sent by heaven to destroy the Communist Party,” :unsure: Sounds like a cult to me...:censored:
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/09/30/reports-china-organ-harvesting-cult-falun-gong/

:taken from Wiki
Misinformation campaign on COVID-19
The Epoch Times is identified as spreading misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic in print and via social media including Facebook and YouTube.[39] It has promoted anti-China rhetoric and conspiracy theories around the coronavirus outbreak, for example through an 8-page special edition called "How the Chinese Communist Party Endangered the World", which was distributed unsolicited in April 2020 to mail customers in areas of USA, Canada, and Australia.[40][41] The minisformation tracker NewsGuard characterized The Epoch Times as a "super-spreader" of misinformation for European audiences.[42]

Perhaps the other side of the story if you can be bothered.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE9aZXqw1r4

https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/...ns-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/ Soley on their religion??? The fact that the few terrorist attacks by Uyghur separatists had nothing to do with it? (the video is too graphic to post!)
I'm starting to think these camps are similar to Guantanamo Bay.
Xinjiang where most of the Uyghurs reside there are currently 25,000 mosques, 39,000 in total all over China.

Have you actually spent time in China to come to the conclusion that its a dystopian, totalitarian state? Or you just going off what you have read? Just curious!
 

Backache

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As your point on HK, yes I can imagine these people aren't going to go easily into a dystopian, totalitarian state. Yes they have SARS experience, 97% wear masks all year round and they have the added mentality of trying to beat the Chinese where this came from. However HK's population is so dense, who controls the death numbers released. The CCP, and they haven't exactly been good at that have they? Unless you really believe 5x as many people have died in the Isle of man compared to HK.
Hong Kong had extensive experience of SARS, it shut its borders early to China. It has a first class health service and public health system.
It's academics produced early papers casting doubt on China's numbers.
I would be very surprised if it's figures were not accurate.
 

DanFST

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Hong Kong had extensive experience of SARS, it shut its borders early to China. It has a first class health service and public health system.
It's academics produced early papers casting doubt on China's numbers.
I would be very surprised if it's figures were not accurate.
You don't think it's strange that Mauritius has over 2x the amount of deaths as Hong Kong? Despite them only having 300 cases? And the obvious geographical help.

@Slab would be interested to hear your view living on the Island.


Edit: "only" isn't meant to come across insensitive, anyone passing away is too many.
 

Slab

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You don't think it's strange that Mauritius has over 2x the amount of deaths as Hong Kong? Despite them only having 300 cases? And the obvious geographical help.

@Slab would be interested to hear your view living on the Island.


Edit: "only" isn't meant to come across insensitive, anyone passing away is too many.
We lost 10 from 332 cases (some on front-line but I don't know the split) our 'super spreader' came back from overseas for a family funeral and infected others but overall the number of fatalities is (thankfully) too small to be used as a comparable number
I'm convinced our climate helped get us where we are because it kills the virus outdoors in short order (we can almost 'sterilise' stuff by putting it out in the sun for an hour or so and by having a sever lockdown it helped stop a spread indoors)

The gov moved hard & fast after the 1st positive case and shut everything down within 24 hrs and then escalated that to curfew level 24hrs after that when they saw the public weren't being compliant enough. Not even allowing key workers; essential workers only. Borders closed
No leaving the home and food shops closed for 10 days (afaik the only country to close food stores) After that food shopping strictly controlled

Today marks a partial return to work but all other restrictions remain (inc no golf) I passed through roadblocks and was temp tested before getting access to the office, so despite the gov announcing a wary victory we still face curfew restrictions for another couple of weeks at least with masks etc going to be commonplace for the next couple of months

This is despite 18 days with no positive tests and zero patients in the country... yup that means masks, temp testing, roadblocks, no exercise and alphabetical shopping restrictions all remain... with no known cases!
 
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And we hear from Trump on the views of his 'CMO' - Dr Anthony Fauci - in respect of the dangers of opening up too quickly - Fauci's views are unacceptable. Fauci will soon be even more excluded from any briefings by the White House than he is at the moment (in self-imposed quarantine). And though I am not all over the US news channels - I haven't seen or heard much from Dr Deborah Birx (Coronavirus Response Coordinator) recently either. Oh joys for our cousins across the pond.
 
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Backache

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You don't think it's strange that Mauritius has over 2x the amount of deaths as Hong Kong? Despite them only having 300 cases? And the obvious geographical help.
You cannot compare numbers internationally as you don't know the age or health structure of the cases or the efficiency of capturing them.
Honk Kong doctors are neither dishonest nor incompetent, they had extensive experience with SARS.
Their numbers are almost certainly reliable.
 

spongebob59

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Speaking at a rally, President Trump monologues:
“When you test you have a case… if we didn’t do any testing we would have very few cases. They don’t want to write that.”
 
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