Simple Question Regarding Cancelled Golf Break

Stuart_C

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What makes you think they will go under?
I guess due to the current situation with travel suspended and closure of golf clubs, YGT are going to lose a lot of money this year. They make a lot of business through the summer months and with weekends away around major competitions (Masters,TheOpen,Ryder Cup) all likely to be cancelled thats a massive dent in their usual sales.

Is their business healthy enough to sustain a downturn in business?? I doubt it.
 

Mark1751

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I guess due to the current situation with travel suspended and closure of golf clubs, YGT are going to lose a lot of money this year. They make a lot of business through the summer months and with weekends away around major competitions (Masters,TheOpen,Ryder Cup) all likely to be cancelled thats a massive dent in their usual sales.

Is their business healthy enough to sustain a downturn in business?? I doubt it.
I agree that YGT will more than likely loose money this and probably next year as things have and will continue to be financially tight for business and the general public for the foreseeable future. The stimulus package the Government has provided will have us all (employed and self employed) paying it back for the rest of our lifetimes. we are in unprecedented times with many of us having to go onto furlough pay or taking voluntary wage cuts to keep companies afloat. When times get tough things like holidays and weekends away golfing are not priorities and paying the mortgages and feeding the family are.
 

Mark1751

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Because they are doing everything they can to refuse offering refunds!
There are nearly 20 guys in the Whatsapp group, people posting on Twitter and Facebook and I've not heard of a single person or group who's been offered a cash refund, I don't suppose they've taken the decision for the reputation to take such a massive hit if they could have just paid out.

Someone posted a screen shot from their companies house page, I sent it to a mate who teaches business and that was his immediate response, someone online was of a similar view. But who knows for definite.

What's definite is that some of the lead bookers are gearing up to take them to court to recover their money and with the law being on their side, they will win.

The credit notes even backed by ABTA and redeemable for cash in 4 months time will not suit all.

Perhaps it's time for YGT to offer an incentive to customers to agree to what is in effect a cash loan to keep the company trading.
So in answer to my question is that you don’t have any idea that they don’t have the cash, and someone Who has seen one page of accounts can determine that a companies has no money.
With everything that is going on companies have had to work things out with little or no time, I would imagine (I’m no expert) that rule changes have allowed companies to get government backed loans or restructuring existing debts which takes time so they can get through this world wide crisis. Is that fair for the customers NO but I’m guessing if they started refunding everyone straight away then there will be some who get nothing and doing it this way gives both the company and the customers something - vouchers for future holidays (into cash end of July) and companies not having a run on them like the banks in 2008 which ultimately brought some of them down.
 
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So in answer to my question is that you don’t have any idea that they don’t have the cash, and someone Who has seen one page of accounts can determine that a companies has no money.
With everything that is going on companies have had to work things out with little or no time, I would imagine (I’m no expert) that rule changes have allowed companies to get government backed loans or restructuring existing debts which takes time so they can get through this world wide crisis. Is that fair for the customers NO but I’m guessing if they started refunding everyone straight away then there will be some who get nothing and doing it this way gives both the company and the customers something - vouchers for future holidays (into cash end of July) and companies not having a run on them like the banks in 2008 which ultimately brought some of them down.
I find your defence of YGT fairly odd. Nobody has said for definite they dont have the funds to pay the customers back but it's an educated guess many have made. The business model they run means they need new custom to pay for holidays that were had weeks ago, they clearly don't have much of a cash reserve and if they did then it would be worth refunding those who didn't wish for a voucher or a rescheduled break just to avoid the negative PR.

I and I'm sure many others like me will never use YGT after reading how they have treated their customers, they have not been able to provide what they were contracted to provide and therefore you are entitled to a refund. This money is not YGT money, it's the money of hard working people who may need it now more than ever. It's about time YGT did the right thing by their customers, you would think they would but then again perhaps they just dont have the funds to and cant get hold of the capital they would need.
 

Blue in Munich

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I find your defence of YGT fairly odd. Nobody has said for definite they dont have the funds to pay the customers back but it's an educated guess many have made. The business model they run means they need new custom to pay for holidays that were had weeks ago, they clearly don't have much of a cash reserve and if they did then it would be worth refunding those who didn't wish for a voucher or a rescheduled break just to avoid the negative PR.

I and I'm sure many others like me will never use YGT after reading how they have treated their customers, they have not been able to provide what they were contracted to provide and therefore you are entitled to a refund. This money is not YGT money, it's the money of hard working people who may need it now more than ever. It's about time YGT did the right thing by their customers, you would think they would but then again perhaps they just dont have the funds to and cant get hold of the capital they would need.
Maybe he's really Chris W from Trust Pilot... ;)
 

Mark1751

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I find your defence of YGT fairly odd. Nobody has said for definite they dont have the funds to pay the customers back but it's an educated guess many have made. The business model they run means they need new custom to pay for holidays that were had weeks ago, they clearly don't have much of a cash reserve and if they did then it would be worth refunding those who didn't wish for a voucher or a rescheduled break just to avoid the negative PR.

I and I'm sure many others like me will never use YGT after reading how they have treated their customers, they have not been able to provide what they were contracted to provide and therefore you are entitled to a refund. This money is not YGT money, it's the money of hard working people who may need it now more than ever. It's about time YGT did the right thing by their customers, you would think they would but then again perhaps they just dont have the funds to and cant get hold of the capital they would need.
I’m not defending YGT I just wanted to understand some of you points that you made.
 

GB72

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I have no real insider knowledge about these things but it does seem that a lot of travel companies live in the edge. You look how many have gone under with even relatively short disruptions in trading conditions.

Not sticking up for the company but can see both sides. If it were my company that I had worked hard to build then I would do all that I could to keep it running however callous that may sound. No point in preserving reputation if there is no company to benefit from that. That said, if I were a customer then I would be doing the same as is detailed in this thread.
 

Blue in Munich

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I have no real insider knowledge about these things but it does seem that a lot of travel companies live in the edge. You look how many have gone under with even relatively short disruptions in trading conditions.

Not sticking up for the company but can see both sides. If it were my company that I had worked hard to build then I would do all that I could to keep it running however callous that may sound. No point in preserving reputation if there is no company to benefit from that. That said, if I were a customer then I would be doing the same as is detailed in this thread.
No point in preserving the company if the reputation you get in doing so kills the company off either.
 

road2ruin

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I have no real insider knowledge about these things but it does seem that a lot of travel companies live in the edge. You look how many have gone under with even relatively short disruptions in trading conditions.

Not sticking up for the company but can see both sides. If it were my company that I had worked hard to build then I would do all that I could to keep it running however callous that may sound. No point in preserving reputation if there is no company to benefit from that. That said, if I were a customer then I would be doing the same as is detailed in this thread.
I agree, until you know how it feels to see a company you’ve worked hard to build up suddenly face bankruptcy through no fault of your own you cannot really comment.

It might not be morally right what YGT (or any other travel company) are doing however I really doubt they give a flying about reputation at the moment. This is purely about survival, no point being bankrupt but having a brilliant reputation.

If they come out the other side they will have a load of customers who will probably never book with them again however at least they’ll have a company. Whether it’s recoverable in the long term, who knows however that’s not what many businesses are thinking about at present.
 

Stuart_C

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Just had a nosey at the trust pilot site, many of the negative posts have been removed, I wouldnt be surprised if YGT contact GM and try and get this deleted.
 
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Whilst you're chatting, can you please ask why they removed at least one honest, fair, balanced, polite Trustpilot review? The fact that they have done this has annoyed me more than them trying to keep my money :D

And I would guess that Chris W is Chris Williams - Marketing Director of YGT according to LinkedIn. Such a rookie move.
 
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Points for discussion with Andrew, if anyone would like to add anything?

Seems to me the travel industry is in dire straits and needs it's customer's good will and patience to help firms survive. Given this I hope YGT are willing to work with its customers to come to amicable solutions regards refunds and to answer all our questions.

Firstly, can you confirm that as the law stands, we are entitled to a full cash refund on 31st March for our breaks that Your Golf Travel have cancelled? For those that stand firm to receive one, will they get it?

Secondly, YGT have said repeatedly that they will only deal with the lead bookers and that refund credit notes could only be used by them. This seems very inflexible especially as some groups are large, with differing circumstances and views, would you consider splitting bookings down to the individual level?

What also hasn’t been discussed is compensation over and above our full refund, the terms and conditions state that we are not entitled to compensation due to cancellation as a result of extraordinary circumstances. I agree if we get refunded in 14 days we don’t get compensation, however if YGT fail to provide a full refund within 14 days in breach of the law, might we may have a case for compensation?

There are some YGT customers stating that they'll take YGT to the small claims court, they're likely to win, what do you say to your customers who are desperate for their money and wish to pursue this course of action?

Are you going to be looking to offer any incentives for groups to take the refund credit notes rather than pursue the cash refund option through ABTA or the courts?
Why have you removed at least one honest, fair, balanced, polite Trustpilot review?
 

Neilds

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Points for discussion with Andrew, if anyone would like to add anything?

Seems to me the travel industry is in dire straits and needs it's customer's good will and patience to help firms survive. Given this I hope YGT are willing to work with its customers to come to amicable solutions regards refunds and to answer all our questions.

Firstly, can you confirm that as the law stands, we are entitled to a full cash refund on 31st March for our breaks that Your Golf Travel have cancelled? For those that stand firm to receive one, will they get it?

Secondly, YGT have said repeatedly that they will only deal with the lead bookers and that refund credit notes could only be used by them. This seems very inflexible especially as some groups are large, with differing circumstances and views, would you consider splitting bookings down to the individual level?

What also hasn’t been discussed is compensation over and above our full refund, the terms and conditions state that we are not entitled to compensation due to cancellation as a result of extraordinary circumstances. I agree if we get refunded in 14 days we don’t get compensation, however if YGT fail to provide a full refund within 14 days in breach of the law, might we may have a case for compensation?

There are some YGT customers stating that they'll take YGT to the small claims court, they're likely to win, what do you say to your customers who are desperate for their money and wish to pursue this course of action?

Are you going to be looking to offer any incentives for groups to take the refund credit notes rather than pursue the cash refund option through ABTA or the courts?
Why have you removed at least one honest, fair, balanced, polite Trustpilot review?
Isn’t your 1st point (2nd paragraph ) a two way thing? Companies need customers to work towards amicable solutions as well. I read a report this weekend about how, if everyone pushes for refunds the companies will go bust and it will take a long time for customers to get any refund, which is highly unlikely to be anything like the full amount. Be careful what you wish for
 
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