Should those in the public eye resign for breaking lockdown rules?

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oltimer

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Professor Lockdown, hardly well known - resigned, a shame as his expertise be needed at the Virus Table,
Kyle Walker a Nationally known Manchester City footballer has again (3 times) ignored the rules all should comply with to prevent this virus spreading, a round trip of around 80 miles to give his sister a birthday card (no post boxes in Prestbury?) then on to his parents to collect some home made food and is now complaining that the press reporting his total lack of concern for the rest of us is upsetting his wife and children and unfairly so, before he does the right thing and resign from Man City as his actions bring the Club into disrepute he should go and visit some of the hundred spouses and children of those NHS people who have lost their lives attempting to save others from this virus. has he no moral compass.
 

Slab

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When are people going to cotton-on
The lockdown is not for the rich and famous

It is there for the rest of us to follow and millions can't do that, with 10-20% breaching lockdown in the UK it stands to reason that 10-20% of footballers will breach it too even if they weren't famous
 

bobmac

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He was reportedly fined £1000
That won't make much of a dent in his £150,000 per week wages.
I don't know if his team have agreed to a pay cut during the pandemic, but if not he has earned over £1,050,000 since the lockdown for doing nothing.
He'll get no sympathy from me and if he feels harassed by the media, he's only got himself to blame.
 

Fish

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Professor Lockdown, hardly well known - resigned, a shame as his expertise be needed at the Virus Table,
Kyle Walker a Nationally known Manchester City footballer has again (3 times) ignored the rules all should comply with to prevent this virus spreading, a round trip of around 80 miles to give his sister a birthday card (no post boxes in Prestbury?) then on to his parents to collect some home made food and is now complaining that the press reporting his total lack of concern for the rest of us is upsetting his wife and children and unfairly so, before he does the right thing and resign from Man City as his actions bring the Club into disrepute he should go and visit some of the hundred spouses and children of those NHS people who have lost their lives attempting to save others from this virus. has he no moral compass.
The problem is with idiots like KW, is, they believe they’re above any law or guidelines, they have an attitude that’s transmits to being better than anyone else and will always do what they want, after all, what’s the worse that can happen, if his club fines him, so what, they’re millionaires, the club won’t drop him if he’s needed, and he’d get paid still anyway.

There’s a few in the football fraternity and other sports that will act like complete tools, knowing that if it’s not a criminal offence, where some proper punishment could be implemented, they’ll just please themselves and to hell with being told what they can or can’t do!

He’s a self absorbed selfish idiot, and unfortunately he’s not alone!
 

pauldj42

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There’s over 4,000 professional footballers in the UK, why worry about the behaviour of 3 or 4 of them?

Regardless of situation you will not get 100% compliance from all walks of society.

As I asked yesterday, why aren’t we asking if this is actually newsworthy and if it’s what we want from our media? The “photographer” allegedly followed Walker over an 11 hour period documenting his actions and taking photographs. I’d guess they were already stalking him hoping for a story, is that behaviour acceptable at this time? Surely the responsible thing to have done was to of phoned the Police when he arrived in Sheffield after travelling from Manchester not to have sat and waited for 4 hours to get the picture as he left.

Press are scum in my opinion and those who buy the papers are condoning their behaviour.
 

MetalMickie

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Whilst I would never condone the actions of Kyle Walker I do feel that there is a vital distinction to draw in the two cases cited by the OP.

Walker is a professional footballer and, as such and in view of his previous breach should realise that the gutter press are likely to have him under scrutiny. Clearly his brains are in his feet, or somewhere beneath his waist.

However the Professor was part of the very body that advised the Government on the policy of lockdown and, I believe, at one stage went public to stress the importance of us all adhere to the rules and guidelines.

In light of this he had no option but to resign as his breach damaged the credibility of SAGE and its ongoing role in fighting the virus .
 
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Whilst I would never condone the actions of Kyle Walker I do feel that there is a vital distinction to draw in the two cases cited by the OP.

Walker is a professional footballer and, as such and in view of his previous breach should realise that the gutter press are likely to have him under scrutiny. Clearly his brains are in his feet, or somewhere beneath his waist.

However the Professor was part of the very body that advised the Government on the policy of lockdown and, I believe, at one stage went public to stress the importance of us all adhere to the rules and guidelines.

In light of this he had no option but to resign as his breach damaged the credibility of SAGE and its ongoing role in fighting the virus .
It only damages the credibility of SAGE if you chose to draw that conclusion for the mistaken action of one expert among about 40 modellers inputting their findings to the group. If I am looking to find a way around the restrictions then I will. That some say - well if he did it then why can’t I - are for me simply the thoughts of someone looking to breach the conditions the government is asking us to adhere to. The evidence and options SAGE have provided to the government remain unchanged and as valid as they were when they were made - I am minded to think that the input of Ferguson is not something we should have quite so blithely discarded because others might choose to use it as an excuse for themselves to act irresponsibly. I am also minded to suggest that the part Ferguson has played, and could continue to play, in keeping us safe through providing input to SAGE is rather more valuable than such as Jenrick.

We do sometimes seem to act against our own interests for reasons that are often rather over blown.
 
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MetalMickie

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It only damages the credibility of SAGE if you chose to draw that conclusion for the mistaken action of one expert among about 40 modellers inputting their findings to the group. If I am looking to find a way around the restrictions then I will. That some say - well if he did it then why can’t I - are for me simply the thoughts of someone looking to breach the conditions the government is asking us to adhere to. The evidence and options SAGE have provided to the government remain unchanged and as valid as they were when they were made - I am minded to think that the input of Ferguson is not something we should have quite so blithely discarded because others might choose to use it as an excuse for themselves to act irresponsibly.
You clearly have a very different view to mine of Collective Responsibility.

If, by his actions or words a member of SAGE or similar body weakens that organisation, and Prof Ferguson clearly did, then he owes it to that body to accept his continued membership will damage it.

Resignation was his only option regardless of his expertise
 
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You clearly have a very different view to mine of Collective Responsibility.

If, by his actions or words a member of SAGE or similar body weakens that organisation, and Prof Ferguson clearly did, then he owes it to that body to accept his continued membership will damage it.

Resignation was his only option regardless of his expertise
But I don’t think it makes one iota of difference to the validity of what SAGE tells the government. His acts are the personal behaviour of one individual who had already contracted and recovered from the virus. They do not invalidate or undermine his analysis of the pandemic or of the options provided to the government by SAGE unless you choose to make that so.
 

Swinglowandslow

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You clearly have a very different view to mine of Collective Responsibility.

If, by his actions or words a member of SAGE or similar body weakens that organisation, and Prof Ferguson clearly did, then he owes it to that body to accept his continued membership will damage it.

Resignation was his only option regardless of his expertise
You will note that I have "liked " this and SILH post above. I am in broad agreement in principle with MM, but sometimes, the requirement for retribution of the usual kind, is outweighed by the requirements of the many.
In this case, the Country.
The Country will benefit , at this time, from the Professors work. So , use it.
His reputation has been battered as it is, and after this is over and his expertise has helped , then is the time that his reputation would affect him.
Amongst the Press, and importantly, amongst his peers.
After all, for what will he be most remembered when things are normal?
 

Foxholer

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Professor Lockdown, hardly well known - resigned, a shame as his expertise be needed at the Virus Table,
Kyle Walker a Nationally known Manchester City footballer has again (3 times) ignored the rules all should comply with to prevent this virus spreading, a round trip of around 80 miles to give his sister a birthday card (no post boxes in Prestbury?) then on to his parents to collect some home made food and is now complaining that the press reporting his total lack of concern for the rest of us is upsetting his wife and children and unfairly so, before he does the right thing and resign from Man City as his actions bring the Club into disrepute he should go and visit some of the hundred spouses and children of those NHS people who have lost their lives attempting to save others from this virus. has he no moral compass.
It was all pretty good until then!!

I hope it was meant ironically (though doubt it was)! Otherwise it demonstrates almost identical 'non-thinking' to the idiotic KW!
 

MetalMickie

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But I don’t think it makes one iota of difference to the validity of what SAGE tells the government. His acts are the personal behaviour of one individual who had already contracted and recovered from the virus. They do not invalidate his analysis of the pandemic.
No one is questioning his scientific judgement.

However, you and I would be critical of any politician who quite so blatantly adopted a "Do as I say not as I do!" attitude.

The same standard applies to Government advisors and scientists.

Privilege extended due to wealth and rank is wrong and so is privilege based upon scientific acumen.
 

larmen

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However, you and I would be critical of any politician who quite so blatantly adopted a "Do as I say not as I do!" attitude.
How about a government minister who spends weeks at their 2nd home instead of staying home and saving lifes? And I don't mean in their constituency but a countryside residence. How about that same minister shaking hands in hospitals the same day the government advertises social distancing? Of course it his all forgiven as he caught it himself (how, if he would follow all government advise?). Nothing could damage the message of staying safe more than Boris himself.
 

MetalMickie

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How about a government minister who spends weeks at their 2nd home instead of staying home and saving lifes? And I don't mean in their constituency but a countryside residence. How about that same minister shaking hands in hospitals the same day the government advertises social distancing? Of course it his all forgiven as he caught it himself (how, if he would follow all government advise?). Nothing could damage the message of staying safe more than Boris himself.
You appear to be mixing up the actions of the PM with those of the Education Secretary.

In the case of the latter it wasn't a country home but the residence from which he services his constituency. Still wrong.

As for Boris the infamous handshakes were in the very early stages of the virus in this country and therefore, there was still considerable confusion over the best courses of action.
 

SocketRocket

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How about a government minister who spends weeks at their 2nd home instead of staying home and saving lifes? And I don't mean in their constituency but a countryside residence. How about that same minister shaking hands in hospitals the same day the government advertises social distancing? Of course it his all forgiven as he caught it himself (how, if he would follow all government advise?). Nothing could damage the message of staying safe more than Boris himself.
Wondered how long it would take to blame Boris 😔
 

Wolf

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He was reportedly fined £1000
That won't make much of a dent in his £150,000 per week wages.
I don't know if his team have agreed to a pay cut during the pandemic, but if not he has earned over £1,050,000 since the lockdown for doing nothing.
He'll get no sympathy from me and if he feels harassed by the media, he's only got himself to blame.
Why does what he earns have to be constantly mentioned or used as a factor in consideration of what he's done. It has absolutely nothing to do with money that he has breached lockdown.

It has nothing to do with a sense of entitlement either its merely a case that he is one of the many thousands of dickheads that are breaching all over the country but its merely newsworthy because of who he is. I'd equally like to see people castigate the pleb of a reporter that felt the need to be traipsing over the country for 11hrs. Nobody is complaining about him being paid to follow the footballer, therefore being paid to do a non essential journey are they, nope just the bloke who earns more and should know better.
 
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Thing is that the relationship between SAGE and the government has been established in the public mindset over the last three months - that the government is being 'led by the science' - and by implication the government is being led by SAGE.

And we here all know (because it's the sort of thing we try and understand) that that is not actually how it will have been working. SAGE will have been providing the government with options based upon the input provided by the sub-groups, each of which has input from many scientists and others, one of whom was Prof Neil Ferguson. The government then chooses the route that it wishes to go down by considering and weighing up the options - and the impact - political, social and economic that each might have. And so the mantra 'We are being led by the science', is simply rather disingenuous - guided certainly - but not led.

But as the relationship established in the public mindest by the briefings is that SAGE leads - the government follows - the error of Ferguson is portrayed as 'those that tell us what to do are not doing it themselves'. When in fact it is not SAGE who are telling us what to do - everything we are doing today is as a result of a positive decision made by government. If anyone should be looking at their actions in the context of 'them telling us and acting differently' - that individual should be Robert Jenrick. Yes he gave 'good' reasons - but then so did Ferguson.
 
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