Should This Be the End of Cheap Pay and Play Deals

Traminator

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Don't many members clubs have affiliate deals giving member players nominal /free golf at other courses?
Financially what's the benefit in giving that tee time away for next to naff all (to a non member) when a visitor could take the spot and pay double

Why should a member at one club take a tee away from a member or visitor at another club for little or no financial gain
Clubs generally limit these reciprocal tee times.
They are an added value to each club's membership package that costs each club nothing.
 
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Slightly different area, but what are people’s thoughts on the points based schemes such as play more golf? Just been looking at a club near me (Scarcroft) which charges £1300 for full membership (which I cannot even begin to justify with how often I play). With the points system I would pay £325 for the year, and get 100 points. Most expensive tee time is 9 points, which means I get 11 rounds before I need to think about buying more. Since I play once to twice a month in summer, this seems like a good fit.

But how do full members view it? Do you resent these “cheaper” members. I wouldn't get all the benefits, as I wouldn’t be eligible to play in the clubs majors
 

Slab

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Clubs generally limit these reciprocal tee times.
They are an added value to each club's membership package that costs each club nothing.
Costs a tee time doesn't it, that a visitor could buy

Ok maybe its limited to a couple of times a year... Times 400 members

I'm just saying if you favour a full members model and don't want 3rd party players then be prepared to give up any affiliate deal too
 

Traminator

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But how do full members view it? Do you resent these “cheaper” members?
In reality, who really knows what your membership terms are and who really cares?
You pay your money, you play your golf, have a drink sitting on that nice patio overlooking the 18th green and go home.

They're basically offering a discount ticket for bulk purchase of green fees, if you'll mainly be playing at weekends it works out a very good deal as it's £55 per round, but at £35 weekdays it's still cheaper but not as good a deal.
 
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Traminator

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Costs a tee time doesn't it, that a visitor could buy

Ok maybe its limited to a couple of times a year... Times 400 members

I'm just saying if you favour a full members model and don't want 3rd party players then be prepared to give up any affiliate deal too
A couple of weekday 4 balls per week maybe, all of whom will probably eat and drink something? I doubt there are many members clubs that are so rammed every weekday that they can't reciprocate 2 tee times per week.

Why would any club want to give it up, it's a nice benefit.
 

ScienceBoy

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If anything this should be a move away from the traditional model of membership for a number of clubs, a great chance to reset the business model to something that doesn’t rely on bar intakes to turn a profit.
 

Slab

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A couple of weekday 4 balls per week maybe, all of whom will probably eat and drink something? I doubt there are many members clubs that are so rammed every weekday that they can't reciprocate 2 tee times per week.

Why would any club want to give it up, it's a nice benefit.
Probably can fit them in no problem but equally they can fit in some visitors too
I'd have thought there was an equal chance of a visitor having a drink and some food though?

If a members club doesn't want visitors that's cool, no problem at all. But let's not pretend that a member at club A is anything other than a 3rd party pay and play golfer when they are playing at affiliate clubs B, C & D a couple of times a year (maybe not even paying anything!)
 

garyinderry

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When I played at a club that had reciprocal deals.

You could only play when it really really suited the other club. Limited to the amount of times you could do it.

It was a nice idea but a pain in the backside to get sorted.

Only did it a few times.
 

Doon frae Troon

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In my opinion future price modeling at most golf clubs will see OAP/Senior benefits go and I would imagine some sort of membership fee that is based on the amount of rounds you play.
Some of the smaller clubs will have to revert back to the artisan\volunteer methods of the 1950\60s to survive.
Discounts only for 'family' type memberships.
 
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Just joined here to have my say on this thread.

My wife & I have played golf for 8 years or so and have little interest in joining a club. Speaking for myself, I don't want play the same course every week. I enjoy playing different courses. I have no interest in the social aspect of a golf club. The type of people who are, are generally not the sort of people I am interested in socialising with. I have had the misfortune to encounter some of the more obnoxious members on and around courses. I have no interest in playing in comps or with random people. I have no interest in getting an official handicap. I don't care if a course isn't in pristine condition. I play with friends too. So there is no incentive whatsoever for me to join a club.

I use online booking to get the best price I can. Sometime this is through the club's site, sometimes through teeofftimes etc. It seems that some club members look down on those who aren't and don't think they should be allowed on their course. Or they think that visitors have less respect for the course. It's clear to me that many members fail to fix divots and pitch marks and don't rake bunkers, which I always do. At a time like this, if tee times are at a premium, then members should get priority up to a point, but visitors keeps clubs going too.

Plenty of people don't join clubs for one or more of the reasons I've mentioned. Golf still has a snobby, exclusive and expensive reputation because of attitudes like this and many people are put off the game. In reality there's no reason why golf can't be fairly cheap and accessible, but maybe some don't want it to be.
 

Traminator

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Just joined here to have my say on this thread.

My wife & I have played golf for 8 years or so and have little interest in joining a club. Speaking for myself, I don't want play the same course every week. I enjoy playing different courses. I have no interest in the social aspect of a golf club. The type of people who are, are generally not the sort of people I am interested in socialising with. I have had the misfortune to encounter some of the more obnoxious members on and around courses. I have no interest in playing in comps or with random people. I have no interest in getting an official handicap. I don't care if a course isn't in pristine condition. I play with friends too. So there is no incentive whatsoever for me to join a club.

I use online booking to get the best price I can. Sometime this is through the club's site, sometimes through teeofftimes etc. It seems that some club members look down on those who aren't and don't think they should be allowed on their course. Or they think that visitors have less respect for the course. It's clear to me that many members fail to fix divots and pitch marks and don't rake bunkers, which I always do. At a time like this, if tee times are at a premium, then members should get priority up to a point, but visitors keeps clubs going too.

Plenty of people don't join clubs for one or more of the reasons I've mentioned. Golf still has a snobby, exclusive and expensive reputation because of attitudes like this and many people are put off the game. In reality there's no reason why golf can't be fairly cheap and accessible, but maybe some don't want it to be.
You make so many unfounded, incorrect assumptions there, it's just laughable. Nearly.
 
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GB72

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You make so many unfounded, incorrect assumptions there, it's just laughable. Nearly.
Have to agree there. I started the post just as a debating point not from some elitist standpoint. As I have said in this thread, I am currently not a member at a club and am looking at various options as membership does not suit me at the moment but just thought it interesting that clubs would be helped by more members but membership could be hindered by the fact that they also offer cheap deals. At the moment those deals are less prevalent and it has, in some cases resulted in the increased membership they have been looking for.
 
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You make so many unfounded, incorrect assumptions there, it's just laughable. Nearly.
I haven't made any assumptions. It's exactly how everything appears to me from my direct experience and posts on this forum. I can't see how anyone can disagree with any of it. Can you be more specific?

Rates for tee times are higher since lockdown, but I still have no interest in joining a club and do not foresee ever joining a club.
 
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The year is 2020 guys - joining fees in the hope that it keeps people longer, just stops people joining in the first place.
Agree, that this must apply to majority of clubs, particularly with so much competition from other clubs online booking options.
There will still be a few more exclusive clubs with waiting lists, that can still charge a joining fee.
 

Traminator

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I haven't made any assumptions. It's exactly how everything appears to me from my direct experience and posts on this forum. I can't see how anyone can disagree with any of it. Can you be more specific?

Rates for tee times are higher since lockdown, but I still have no interest in joining a club and do not foresee ever joining a club.
All I have to say is, the way you look down on hundreds of thousands of normal people, who just happen to like being golf club members, and the way you lump "members" all together, demonstrates exactly the kind of disdain from yourself that you seem to think exists. Very hypocritical.

My first post on this subject says all I feel, there should be options for everyone.
Nobody needs to "look down" on other players based purely on their budget or choice of payment, and that works in all directions.
 

IanM

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Just joined here to have my say on this thread.

My wife & I have played golf for 8 years or so and have little interest in joining a club. Speaking for myself, I don't want play the same course every 9week. I enjoy playing different courses. I have no interest in the social aspect of a golf club. The type of people who are, are generally not the sort of people I am interested in socialising with. I have had the misfortune to encounter some of the more obnoxious members on and around courses. I have no interest in playing in comps or with random people. I have no interest in getting an official handicap. I don't care if a course isn't in pristine condition. I play with friends too. So there is no incentive whatsoever for me to join a club.

I use online booking to get the best price I can. Sometime this is through the club's site, sometimes through teeofftimes etc. It seems that some club members look down on those who aren't and don't think they should be allowed on their course. Or they think that visitors have less respect for the course. It's clear to me that many members fail to fix divots and pitch marks and don't rake bunkers, which I always do. At a time like this, if tee times are at a premium, then members should get priority up to a point, but visitors keeps clubs going too.

Plenty of people don't join clubs for one or more of the reasons I've mentioned. Golf still has a snobby, exclusive and expensive reputation because of attitudes like this and many people are put off the game. In reality there's no reason why golf can't be fairly cheap and accessible, but maybe some don't want it to be.
....not sure about the generalisations, clubs and members come in all shapes and sizes, but sadly there are plenty of trueisms in what you said too.

You have every right to play golf as you see fit. I know several couples in our club who only play together, never in comps and dont bother with handicaps. Based on your preferences there's no reason to join a club.

Bur if you play every week it becomes cost effective to join a club...if you live near one that suits!

People do what suits them. Clubs must cater for their local market ....like any other business.

The current situation has certainly got members of the hotel courses round here (Celtic Manor and St Pierre) thinking about their arrangements. They remain closed while other local courses are open.

These other courses range from quite inexpensive to much more so. One of my favourite things about my own club is the diversity of members. But we have the odd wombat too! But tell me about any other community of 1000 people where this would not also be the case?
 
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Slightly different area, but what are people’s thoughts on the points based schemes such as play more golf? Just been looking at a club near me (Scarcroft) which charges £1300 for full membership (which I cannot even begin to justify with how often I play). With the points system I would pay £325 for the year, and get 100 points. Most expensive tee time is 9 points, which means I get 11 rounds before I need to think about buying more. Since I play once to twice a month in summer, this seems like a good fit.

But how do full members view it? Do you resent these “cheaper” members. I wouldn't get all the benefits, as I wouldn’t be eligible to play in the clubs majors
There are threads on this so worth a search. I’m on a points based membership at a club. Similar restrictions are certain comps and there were originally times points members weren’t allowed to play (that’s changed but sat morning is a lot of points).

Perfect for amount of time I have free, but also that I like playing golf with friends and family so that means have time and money to play various different courses. Great to keep handicap though to test yourself and play opens.

Not had any issues with full members being upset although I think they view it as cheap until they realise how much it would cost them playing weekly/multiple times a week.

Main point is it’s probably easier at a club with a booking system or joining with friends otherwise slightly harder to get a game. You don’t really become known/join groups as you’re only there once a month if that makes sense
 
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All I have to say is, the way you look down on hundreds of thousands of normal people, who just happen to like being golf club members, and the way you lump "members" all together, demonstrates exactly the kind of disdain from yourself that you seem to think exists. Very hypocritical.

My first post on this subject says all I feel, there should be options for everyone.
Nobody needs to "look down" on other players based purely on their budget or choice of payment, and that works in all directions.
I'm not looking down on anyone. If joining a club suits people, I have no problem with that. It is a fact that some have a problem with non members playing their course though. Most people I meet out on the course seem to be perfectly pleasant. There have been a few exceptions and those have all been club members including a captain. I'm sure most golf club members are also perfectly pleasant. That doesn't mean I'd want to socialise with them though.
 

Lord Tyrion

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Slightly different area, but what are people’s thoughts on the points based schemes such as play more golf? Just been looking at a club near me (Scarcroft) which charges £1300 for full membership (which I cannot even begin to justify with how often I play). With the points system I would pay £325 for the year, and get 100 points. Most expensive tee time is 9 points, which means I get 11 rounds before I need to think about buying more. Since I play once to twice a month in summer, this seems like a good fit.

But how do full members view it? Do you resent these “cheaper” members. I wouldn't get all the benefits, as I wouldn’t be eligible to play in the clubs majors
How does a full member know if another is on Lifestyle or a Points membership? I only ask because one of my pp on a Saturday is a Lifestyle member but I didn't know until he mentioned it at renewal time. His bag tag was the same, nothing set him apart. Is it different at other places?

I have no issue at all with people playing via these schemes, I absolutely do not see them as second class members. They are options open to everyone, it is up to the individual which membership option they choose. If they suit you better then go for it. Some of the points schemes in particular can be great value.
 

Blue in Munich

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Just joined here to have my say on this thread.

My wife & I have played golf for 8 years or so and have little interest in joining a club. Speaking for myself, I don't want play the same course every week. I enjoy playing different courses. I have no interest in the social aspect of a golf club. The type of people who are, are generally not the sort of people I am interested in socialising with. I have had the misfortune to encounter some of the more obnoxious members on and around courses. I have no interest in playing in comps or with random people. I have no interest in getting an official handicap. I don't care if a course isn't in pristine condition. I play with friends too. So there is no incentive whatsoever for me to join a club.

I use online booking to get the best price I can. Sometime this is through the club's site, sometimes through teeofftimes etc. It seems that some club members look down on those who aren't and don't think they should be allowed on their course. Or they think that visitors have less respect for the course. It's clear to me that many members fail to fix divots and pitch marks and don't rake bunkers, which I always do. At a time like this, if tee times are at a premium, then members should get priority up to a point, but visitors keeps clubs going too.

Plenty of people don't join clubs for one or more of the reasons I've mentioned. Golf still has a snobby, exclusive and expensive reputation because of attitudes like this and many people are put off the game. In reality there's no reason why golf can't be fairly cheap and accessible, but maybe some don't want it to be.
I'm not looking down on anyone. If joining a club suits people, I have no problem with that. It is a fact that some have a problem with non members playing their course though. Most people I meet out on the course seem to be perfectly pleasant. There have been a few exceptions and those have all been club members including a captain. I'm sure most golf club members are also perfectly pleasant. That doesn't mean I'd want to socialise with them though.
The statements in your second comment is very much at odds with the utter disdain you've lumped upon pretty much every club golfer in your first one. The hypocrisy is mind blowing. Reading between the lines, you're quite happy for the obnoxious club members to pay thousands to maintain a facility that you can pop along to for a cheap round as and when it suits you, but you don't think they're fit to mingle with? Lovely, just what we need.
 
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