Scottish Fitba' 19/20

PaulS

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No one has been given the title in Holland, they cancelled the league with Ajax and Alkmaar level on points at the top.

Do they put an asterisk next to the winner of a GP or a cricket game which is cut short?
F1 has rules in place in regards the amount of laps

And cricket has processes in place

But then that’s talking about single matches as opposed to a season long competition
 

rudebhoy

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I'm neutral in this as an Aberdeen fan, 3rd/4th is normal for us these days and as both get a Europa league place I think, not such a big deal.
I can't readily accept the way they've decided things, it's simply unfinished so can't be concluded as champions/relegated etc, for me it should either be complete the season when it can be done and if that's impossible then void all of the 2019/20 season.
At the top Rangers were 13 behind with a game in hand and a loss of form in 2020 but with football you just dont know, Rangers could have regained form, Celtic could have had a couple of losses, too many ifs buts and maybes for me. That 9 in a row or 10 in a row next year will always be tainted/questioned and argued over as valid or not, the SPFL could have avoided that. Tough on Dundee Utd coming up (if season voided) but that would've been the only fair way - complete or void.
All of the clubs - including Rangers - voted to end the league and award the title to Celtic.

It was impossible to wait until it was safe to play the remaining games. Most Scottish clubs have a large proportion of their players on 12 month contracts. Those contracts run out this month. If the league was restarted in late June or July, half the clubs wouldn't able to put a team out, unless you allowed them to sign new players, in which case Hearts for example could have went all out signing quality players (relatively speaking) in an attempt to stay up, which would be totally unfair. Also, the qualifying rounds for European competitions start in July, who would take part in them if the final positions weren't determined?

Celtic had won 26 out of 30 games, they only needed 12 points from their remaining 8 games to be certain of the title.

Even if Rangers has won every one of their remaining games (highly unlikely), Celtic would have wrapped it up comfortably.
 

rudebhoy

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F1 has rules in place in regards the amount of laps

And cricket has processes in place

But then that’s talking about single matches as opposed to a season long competition
does every single cricket match get played every season?

the point a lot of people are missing is if the league was declared null and void, the Sky and BT could have demanded the entire TV monies back. Sponsors would refuse to pay, or sue to get back what they had already paid, even season ticket holders could have sued. There would most likely have been no european football for Scottish clubs. There would have potentially been no prize money. Football in Scotland would be decimated. A total non-starter.

People talking about tainted titles or asterisks are just bad losers.
 

PaulS

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does every single cricket match get played every season?

the point a lot of people are missing is if the league was declared null and void, the Sky and BT could have demanded the entire TV monies back. Sponsors would refuse to pay, or sue to get back what they had already paid, even season ticket holders could have sued. There would most likely have been no european football for Scottish clubs. There would have potentially been no prize money. Football in Scotland would be decimated. A total non-starter.

People talking about tainted titles or asterisks are just bad losers.
I think you are missing the point

I don’t believe anyone mentioned anything about null and voiding anything - I believe all season should be completed when it’s safe to do so , other countries are looking to start to ensure the season is completed

You are clearly a Celtic fan so right now you will be happy because it means Celtic win the title , would you be such a good sport if it was the other way around and Rangers were given the title before all the match’s were completed ? I would think not.

When someone looks at the record books it will show this season as being incomplete with the title awarded to the team on top at the time despite 8 games left to play.
 

Val

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I think you have missed my point

There have been lots of talk that teams that are given the title because they finish the league now before all games are played should have an asterisk next to the year to signify that the season was not fully completed, not suggesting anything wrong was done to win etc.

It’s the same with the league in Holland or France which has finished already.

Whilst it’s highly unlikely but with 8 games left Rangers could have overtaken Celtic to win - Celtic would have prob extended their lead because of their dominance but for some there will also be that small question.
I didnt miss the point at all, to call the title tainted would suggest something was done unfairly or illegally and in this case nothing was. Remember the decision to end the league this way was agreed unanimously, the board of directors of The Rangers agreed to this too.
 

PaulS

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I didnt miss the point at all, to call the title tainted would suggest something was done unfairly or illegally and in this case nothing was. Remember the decision to end the league this way was agreed unanimously, the board of directors of The Rangers agreed to this too.
I don’t believe anyone called the title tainted and to suggest anything wrong was done in winning the title more that people in a “funny” way were saying that an asterisk would be put next to the year to state that the title was given during a year when all the games were not played.

It was just an attempt at a bit of light hearted humour which appears to have gone over the head.
 

Val

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I'm neutral in this as an Aberdeen fan, 3rd/4th is normal for us these days and as both get a Europa league place I think, not such a big deal.
I can't readily accept the way they've decided things, it's simply unfinished so can't be concluded as champions/relegated etc, for me it should either be complete the season when it can be done and if that's impossible then void all of the 2019/20 season.
At the top Rangers were 13 behind with a game in hand and a loss of form in 2020 but with football you just dont know, Rangers could have regained form, Celtic could have had a couple of losses, too many ifs buts and maybes for me. That 9 in a row or 10 in a row next year will always be tainted/questioned and argued over as valid or not, the SPFL could have avoided that. Tough on Dundee Utd coming up (if season voided) but that would've been the only fair way - complete or void.
Nul and void would have destroyed Scottish football financially. Most clubs are running budgets that require some sort of return from broadcasters and sponsorship not to mention league position prize money simply just to break even or keep bank managers happy that debts are manageable. If nul and void was called there would have been sponsors and broadcasters looking for money back.

I dont believe there is a club or fan in the country who wanted it called this way, it is what it is.
 

Val

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I don’t believe anyone called the title tainted and to suggest anything wrong was done in winning the title more that people in a “funny” way were saying that an asterisk would be put next to the year to state that the title was given during a year when all the games were not played.

It was just an attempt at a bit of light hearted humour which appears to have gone over the head.
I think you will find the talk of tainted and asterisks is wide spread, Neil Lennon was asked about it in yesterdays interviews.
 

Jacko_G

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I'm neutral in this as an Aberdeen fan, 3rd/4th is normal for us these days and as both get a Europa league place I think, not such a big deal.
I can't readily accept the way they've decided things, it's simply unfinished so can't be concluded as champions/relegated etc, for me it should either be complete the season when it can be done and if that's impossible then void all of the 2019/20 season.
At the top Rangers were 13 behind with a game in hand and a loss of form in 2020 but with football you just dont know, Rangers could have regained form, Celtic could have had a couple of losses, too many ifs buts and maybes for me. That 9 in a row or 10 in a row next year will always be tainted/questioned and argued over as valid or not, the SPFL could have avoided that. Tough on Dundee Utd coming up (if season voided) but that would've been the only fair way - complete or void.
A bigger issue financially is I'm confident that Aberdeen would have overtaken Motherwell in the run in. Therefore Aberdeen have been financially disadvantaged by calling the league.

However the fact is it needed to be done. Celtic were miles ahead and not being caught. Thugs Utd were bottom. Therefore its only fair that the league positions stand and we move onto the next season if and when that happens.
 

Jacko_G

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I think you are missing the point

I don’t believe anyone mentioned anything about null and voiding anything - I believe all season should be completed when it’s safe to do so , other countries are looking to start to ensure the season is completed

You are clearly a Celtic fan so right now you will be happy because it means Celtic win the title , would you be such a good sport if it was the other way around and Rangers were given the title before all the match’s were completed ? I would think not.

When someone looks at the record books it will show this season as being incomplete with the title awarded to the team on top at the time despite 8 games left to play.
Should history then not reflect that Rangers cheated their way to several titles and cup wins by making illegal payments?

Just playing devils advocate here.

West of Scotland really is an utter shambles when it comes to certain football teams.
 

Kellfire

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Should history then not reflect that Rangers cheated their way to several titles and cup wins by making illegal payments?

Just playing devils advocate here.

West of Scotland really is an utter shambles when it comes to certain football teams.
The fact Rangers don’t even exist anymore is surely punishment enough? ;)
 
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That for me is the biggest outtake from all of this. Lots of clubs will be financially impacted to the point of being on the brink of existence which is sad for the fans and for the sport in general.

I do have one question regarding Scottish football and pardon my ignorance, do fans in Scotland still tend to support the team of their locale meaning decent support for less glamorous teams and lower leagues or is it now the bigger teams get more new fans and following now as happens here in England, where most Man Utd fans live inside the M25 & people now seem to choose their allegiance based on a clubs trophy cabinet rather than the club of their family or where they grew up?

Reason I ask that is I personally like the idea of supporting your local team but we see so much less of it South of the border.
I have no idea of the numbers but I am guessing that for every Scottish town with a football club - by far more football fans will support teams other than their local team - and in the main they will support Rangers or Celtic.

For the cities the split will almost certainly (Glasgow definitely) be more in favour of the city team(s). But I could well be completely wrong on that.

Do more Dundonians support Rangers and Celtic than Dundee and Utd? Likewise for Edinburgh - Rangers and Celtic more than Hibs and Hearts? I'm guessing Aberdeen might find more Aberdeen fans - but I suspect you'll have to be a local and there are a lot of 'non-locals' in Aberdeen - see for example my brother and his pair. All Rangers fans even though his pair are Aberdonians - they just follow, follow ( :) ) Dad - as indeed I followed my mum into supporting St Johnstone even though I was brought up a literal hefty stones throw from Hampden Park.

But boy it was quite tough being one of two St Johnstone supporters at my Glasgow secondary school. That said - we had one English lad who was a Doncaster Rovers fan. So he had double trouble - though we just felt a bit sorry for him - him being English and all that ;)
 

Doon frae Troon

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That for me is the biggest outtake from all of this. Lots of clubs will be financially impacted to the point of being on the brink of existence which is sad for the fans and for the sport in general.

I do have one question regarding Scottish football and pardon my ignorance, do fans in Scotland still tend to support the team of their locale meaning decent support for less glamorous teams and lower leagues or is it now the bigger teams get more new fans and following now as happens here in England, where most Man Utd fans live inside the M25 & people now seem to choose their allegiance based on a clubs trophy cabinet rather than the club of their family or where they grew up?

Reason I ask that is I personally like the idea of supporting your local team but we see so much less of it South of the border.
With the exception of Rangers and Celtic who you could say have a world wide support.
I think things are slowly changing with parents now steering kids away from the 'big two'.
You are much more likely to see kids from outside Glasgow playing fitba in Barcelona, Man U or PSG tops than Rangers or Celtic.
The SPFL second division has been very successful, definitely raising the standard in the country.
Re, support.
Scotland has pro rata the biggest live football league support in Europe.
 

maxfli65

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With the exception of Rangers and Celtic who you could say have a world wide support.
I think things are slowly changing with parents now steering kids away from the 'big two'.
You are much more likely to see kids from outside Glasgow playing fitba in Barcelona, Man U or PSG tops than Rangers or Celtic.
The SPFL second division has been very successful, definitely raising the standard in the country.
Re, support.
Scotland has pro rata the biggest live football league support in Europe.
Yep, my eldest is a Chelsea fan from a young age, loved Hazard, he also has a Barca top.
Scottish football is a hard sell given the high profile of EPL and the big European clubs in Italy and Spain mainly.
Where I grew up it was either Rangers or Aberdeen with the occasional Celtic fan, nothing else. I chose Aberdeen about age 8 as my parents weren't football people, got the 5 stripe admiral kit about '78 and stuck with it and got lucky with the Fergie years.
Times change.
 

Doon frae Troon

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Yep, my eldest is a Chelsea fan from a young age, loved Hazard, he also has a Barca top.
Scottish football is a hard sell given the high profile of EPL and the big European clubs in Italy and Spain mainly.
Where I grew up it was either Rangers or Aberdeen with the occasional Celtic fan, nothing else. I chose Aberdeen about age 8 as my parents weren't football people, got the 5 stripe admiral kit about '78 and stuck with it and got lucky with the Fergie years.
Times change.
As a young Hearts supporter I would also attend and support Hibs at cup or European games.
My Hibs supporting friends would do likewise for Hearts games. Hearts would have over 40,000 fans attending some of those big games, packed in like sardines.
As you say times change, not always for the best.
 
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Slab

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As a young Hearts supporter I would also attend and support Hibs at cup or European games.
My Hibs supporting friends would do likewise for Hearts games. Hearts would have over 40,000 fans attending some of those big games, packed in like sardines.
As you say times change, not always for the best.
Ill guess that the price of a ticket has way out-striped the rate of inflation so folks cant afford to attend as many games now
fa6ec107-5911-43a7-b087-5b26269f4821-540x436.jpeg

Also if you wanted to see it in them days you kinda had to go, no 2,000 live games a season on the tellybox
 

Doon frae Troon

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I quite like the look of the new Rangers proposal of a 14-14-18 league set up.
No club disadvantaged and allowing a fair bit of money to be diverted into the lower league teams.

Rangers and Celtic Under 21 B teams to be included in the third division, 200 match tickets pre bought for away games and a £1000 streaming fee.
With the promised £2m promised from Anderson it should give the wee teams a bit of a boost.
 

Doon frae Troon

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I haven't heard about this one but if it's 14 teams I guess that means a split still and probably a lop sided one? My view is reconstruction needs to be for the long term good not just saving Hearts from relegation and IMO that includes getting rid of the split that causes arguments every year.
SPFL have threatened Hearts with expulsion from Scottish football if they bring a legal case against them. Nice.:(
They know that they do not stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning any legal case that Hearts bring on them.
Compromise will win the day as neither can afford to take it further.
 

rudebhoy

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SPFL have threatened Hearts with expulsion from Scottish football if they bring a legal case against them. Nice.:(
They know that they do not stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning any legal case that Hearts bring on them.
Compromise will win the day as neither can afford to take it further.
UEFA have the same rule, you take them to court, you risk expulsion. I think it's fair enough, there are other avenues clubs can go down e.g. CAS.

I'm getting a bit sick of people trying to dream up ways to keep Hearts in the top division. It wouldn't have happened if Hamilton were bottom.
 

Doon frae Troon

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UEFA have the same rule, you take them to court, you risk expulsion. I think it's fair enough, there are other avenues clubs can go down e.g. CAS.

I'm getting a bit sick of people trying to dream up ways to keep Hearts in the top division. It wouldn't have happened if Hamilton were bottom.
I believe one of the French teams is about to test that scenario in the French courts.
Leagues/sports organisations cannot operate outside of natural justice.
PS it is not just Hearts. (y) Why do you think the English leagues are so desperate to finish their seasons.
 
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