Qualifiers under covid rules

Thread starter #1

bladeplayer

Money List Winner
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
9,001
Location
Emerald Isle
Trying to think what needs to change to have qualifiers under current resteictions .
Hole depth . Hole must b certain depth
( 4inches i think) will R&A need to amend that rule . ? as curent holes are upside down or have riser in them

Our bunkers are in play so just a smooth with foot should cover it .

Anything else need to change ?
 

rosecott

Money List Winner
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
6,567
Location
Notts
Trying to think what needs to change to have qualifiers under current resteictions .
Hole depth . Hole must b certain depth
( 4inches i think) will R&A need to amend that rule . ? as curent holes are upside down or have riser in them

Our bunkers are in play so just a smooth with foot should cover it .

Anything else need to change ?
CONGU has now discussed the implications for scores for handicap qualifying competitions (and supplementary scores) and can confirm the following:

Flagsticks/Holes: If clubs have made the decision to modify the depth of the hole to allow players to remove the ball without touching the flagstick, scores will be acceptable for either competition or supplementary score purposes. In such cases, the ball is considered holed if any part of the ball is below the surface of the putting green, even if not lodged against the flagstick.

Bunkers: If clubs introduce a Local Rule to allow preferred lies in bunkers, scores will be acceptable for competition or supplementary score purposes. (Using Model Local Rule E-3)

Please note: The distance for preferred lies in the bunker is limited to 6 inches and the area cannot be smoothed before placing.

As an alternative (but not combined with the preferred lies detailed above) if the condition of bunkers is so poor that it interferes with the proper playing of the game, a club Committee may declare all bunkers to be Ground Under Repair, scores will be acceptable for competition or supplementary score purposes.
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
7,630
In addition England Golf has said:
Forms of Play and Scoring
• It is recommended that non-competition play is used during the initial period of golf being played, and that stroke play competitions involving players in different groups are avoided
If competitive stroke play is played, a method of scoring needs to be used that does not require any handling or exchanging of scorecards
• Committees may choose to allow methods of scoring in stroke play that do not strictly comply with Rule 3.3b, or do not comply with the normal methods used under Rule 3.3b. For example
• Players may enter their own hole scores on the scorecard (it is not necessary for a marker to do it)
• It is not necessary to have a marker physically certify the player’s hole scores, but some form of verbal certification should take place
• It is not necessary to physically return a scorecard to the Committee provided the Committee can accept the scores in another way
• As provided in the Rules of Golf, scorecards can be electronic, which could include emailing or texting scores to the Committee.
 
Thread starter #4

bladeplayer

Money List Winner
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
9,001
Location
Emerald Isle
Many thanks for replys .ithought it may have to be R&A as it was a rule of golf .. bur looks like congu have it covered ..

Thanks again
 

rosecott

Money List Winner
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
6,567
Location
Notts
Many thanks for replys .ithought it may have to be R&A as it was a rule of golf .. bur looks like congu have it covered ..

Thanks again
Perhaps the only good thing to come out of the pandemic was the united front of all the golfing bodies when dealing with the government on the return to golf.
 

moogie

Tour Winner
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
3,389
Location
Newcastle upon Tyne
Just want to ask another question regarding clubs restarting competitions during this period.....

A club, I shall not name
Is going to restart club competitions as of next weekend 6/6 & 7/6

Its already been stated in email content how they will be run, entries, scorecards etc...... Which all seems fine

The bit I don't get, which I'm looking for answers about, relates to how scores are processed

The club don't intend to input every scorecard into the computer
But instead, will only manually adjust any exceptional scores that are returned, from these comps, those they feel justify a cut...

Is this actually allowed?
If all scores aren't entered after comp, then how do they get a CSS to base there cuts on?
Surely this can't be right, with no lifts, no CSS, and no explanation given (in club email) as to what actually is an exceptional score and deemed worthy of a cut....??

Just seems a half hearted, almost lazy way for the club to get comps up and running again

Any help, answers, greatly appreciated
From a rule point of view, as opposed to just an opinion

Thanks


Edit.....
Just to add, these comps will be the club majors, board comps, condensed into this summer period, run under these rules
 
Last edited:

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
7,630
a) They won't be qualifiers if every score is not in the system.
b) The club cannot make arbitrary adjustments.

Not sure what you mean by 'lifts'. Lifting the ball or increasing handicaps (but see( b))?
 

moogie

Tour Winner
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
3,389
Location
Newcastle upon Tyne
a) They won't be qualifiers if every score is not in the system.
b) The club cannot make arbitrary adjustments.

Not sure what you mean by 'lifts'. Lifting the ball or increasing handicaps (but see( b))?

Re.... Lifts.... Meant increase in handicaps, sorry for the confusion


So, if they're not qualifiers, they can't just cut players for "exceptional scores that warrant a reduction", if it's not based on something more substantial, other than 1 or 2 committee members opinion??

Seems bizarre they want to start up comps in this way, and not run the results of the full field
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
6,099
Location
Yeovil
Apart from the Rules one of the things we will probably go with is that all weekly and monthly comps will be Stableford for the foreseeable future.

We do not want players slowing every thing down whilst running up double figure scores, players returning to tees for a 3 off the tee and avoiding more than one group on any tee where possible.

We are appreciating that all players do have a smart phone to submit scores but we have set up a system so players can submit a photo of or photocopy of their cards by email.
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
6,099
Location
Yeovil
Re.... Lifts.... Meant increase in handicaps, sorry for the confusion


So, if they're not qualifiers, they can't just cut players for "exceptional scores that warrant a reduction", if it's not based on something more substantial, other than 1 or 2 committee members opinion??

Seems bizarre they want to start up comps in this way, and not run the results of the full field
Also a bit weird with the WHS in the not too distant future I would have thought clubs would want want as many Q scores as possible. We are implementing Supplementary Score procedures next week.
 

upsidedown

Tour Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
4,396
Location
Shropshire
For those of you running comps , how have you set up the hole ?
We are using inserts at the moment but ball can bounce out. We did have holes inverted for two days before putting the inserts in and on the one occasion I played didn't see any bounce outs
 

Old Skier

Tour Winner
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
6,791
Location
Instow - play in North Devon
Apart from the Rules one of the things we will probably go with is that all weekly and monthly comps will be Stableford for the foreseeable future.

We do not want players slowing every thing down whilst running up double figure scores, players returning to tees for a 3 off the tee and avoiding more than one group on any tee where possible.

We are appreciating that all players do have a smart phone to submit scores but we have set up a system so players can submit a photo of or photocopy of their cards by email.
Be careful with the photographs, apart from poorly scored cards with those scribbling corrected scores I'm finding a fair number unable to wait for the smartphone focus to kick in.

Go at one more practise run Tuesday with 50 and sent them out a SS Gross Scores Only for them to email back to me, it has player and marker columns and the players will agree the Gross Scores and the markers will send in the Spread Sheet so I can do a double check.
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
7,630
So, if they're not qualifiers, they can't just cut players for "exceptional scores that warrant a reduction", if it's not based on something more substantial, other than 1 or 2 committee members opinion??
Clause 17.3/1 Adjustment of Handicaps in Non-Qualifying Competitions (slightly modified to match the current situation).

Q. The Handicap Committee in our club has taken the decision to make competitions Non Qualifying for the duration of the preferred lie covid period. Resulting from this decision a number of competitors who played below the course SSS in such competitions are seeking a reduction in their Exact Handicap. Is this permitted?
A. It is a fundamental tenet of the UHS that handicap adjustments can only be applied in Qualifying Competitions when handicaps are adjusted, upwards and downwards as appropriate, in relation to the CSS. To create a situation where handicaps can only be reduced, would distort the balance on which the system is based. To reduce the handicaps of those players scoring below the SSS in Non-Qualifying Competitions is considered to be an unacceptable abuse of the system.
 

Old Skier

Tour Winner
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
6,791
Location
Instow - play in North Devon
Clause 17.3/1 Adjustment of Handicaps in Non-Qualifying Competitions (slightly modified to match the current situation).

Q. The Handicap Committee in our club has taken the decision to make competitions Non Qualifying for the duration of the preferred lie covid period. Resulting from this decision a number of competitors who played below the course SSS in such competitions are seeking a reduction in their Exact Handicap. Is this permitted?
A. It is a fundamental tenet of the UHS that handicap adjustments can only be applied in Qualifying Competitions when handicaps are adjusted, upwards and downwards as appropriate, in relation to the CSS. To create a situation where handicaps can only be reduced, would distort the balance on which the system is based. To reduce the handicaps of those players scoring below the SSS in Non-Qualifying Competitions is considered to be an unacceptable abuse of the system.
Find it strange that clubs still feel they can do this. Do they never attend county handicap meetings and read the information that is available out there.
 

moogie

Tour Winner
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
3,389
Location
Newcastle upon Tyne
Clause 17.3/1 Adjustment of Handicaps in Non-Qualifying Competitions (slightly modified to match the current situation).

Q. The Handicap Committee in our club has taken the decision to make competitions Non Qualifying for the duration of the preferred lie covid period. Resulting from this decision a number of competitors who played below the course SSS in such competitions are seeking a reduction in their Exact Handicap. Is this permitted?
A. It is a fundamental tenet of the UHS that handicap adjustments can only be applied in Qualifying Competitions when handicaps are adjusted, upwards and downwards as appropriate, in relation to the CSS. To create a situation where handicaps can only be reduced, would distort the balance on which the system is based. To reduce the handicaps of those players scoring below the SSS in Non-Qualifying Competitions is considered to be an unacceptable abuse of the system.

Thanks very much for your help
That covers the point very well👍
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
6,099
Location
Yeovil
Be careful with the photographs, apart from poorly scored cards with those scribbling corrected scores I'm finding a fair number unable to wait for the smartphone focus to kick in.

Go at one more practise run Tuesday with 50 and sent them out a SS Gross Scores Only for them to email back to me, it has player and marker columns and the players will agree the Gross Scores and the markers will send in the Spread Sheet so I can do a double check.

We are going with Supplementary Scores first and I hope this will help us spot the snags.
 

Old Skier

Tour Winner
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
6,791
Location
Instow - play in North Devon
We are going with Supplementary Scores first and I hope this will help us spot the snags.
I see your reasoning but I wanted numbers so I'm on the 3rd test non Q with up to 50. Going for first Q week Tuesday. The one thing I can say, on the comp time it needs a bit of time and patience which is why I have only asked for gross scores.
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
6,099
Location
Yeovil
I see your reasoning but I wanted numbers so I'm on the 3rd test non Q with up to 50. Going for first Q week Tuesday. The one thing I can say, on the comp time it needs a bit of time and patience which is why I have only asked for gross scores.
We had already gone with the decision to have no comps in June to give us time to sort out the systems and to wait until there was an announcement we could play in 3/4 balls. Too much scrabbling for tee times with 2 balls only and our system would prioritise those who want to play in comps which was seen as unfair.
 

Green Bay Hacker

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,721
We are having our first stableford comp on Saturday and it has been declared a qualifier.
It looks like all bunkers will be in play and we have small foam inserts in the holes. I haven't seen any problems to date with the ball coming out of the hole because of the inserts.
We will play in 2 balls and I will be responsible for my FC's card, he will not touch it at all and he will mark mine. I will enter my score in the markers column as normal and at the end I will sign as marker once both sets of scores have been agreed. I will keep my FC's card and then enter my score remotely into the software. My FC will then enter his score in the same method from the markers score on the card that he has marked for me.
Only cards showing a return of par or better need to be physically posted in the clubhouse.
With rain and 45mph winds forecast for Saturday, I would have thought that anything above 32 points would be in with a chance. ;)
 

Old Skier

Tour Winner
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
6,791
Location
Instow - play in North Devon
We are having our first stableford comp on Saturday and it has been declared a qualifier.
It looks like all bunkers will be in play and we have small foam inserts in the holes. I haven't seen any problems to date with the ball coming out of the hole because of the inserts.
We will play in 2 balls and I will be responsible for my FC's card, he will not touch it at all and he will mark mine. I will enter my score in the markers column as normal and at the end I will sign as marker once both sets of scores have been agreed. I will keep my FC's card and then enter my score remotely into the software. My FC will then enter his score in the same method from the markers score on the card that he has marked for me.
Only cards showing a return of par or better need to be physically posted in the clubhouse.
With rain and 45mph winds forecast for Saturday, I would have thought that anything above 32 points would be in with a chance. ;)
What's the thoughts about cards with par or better having to be physically posted in clubhouse.
 
Top