Playing a ball in a red staked penalty area

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Grant85

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Like many courses, we have quite a few red staked water hazards (burns / streams / man made ditches).

At this time of year they don't have much water in them so it is often the case you can play the ball from the dry bed or from it sitting in the water, but mostly above the surface (Jean Van de Velde style).

I know the rules were relaxed with regards to moving stones (loose impediments) in bunkers as well as accidentally grounding your club when in a bunker. But is this the same for red staked areas?

I guess it is fairly unlikely it is allowed, but would be good to have this confirmed.
 
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Grant85

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OK - have potentially answered my own question.

Assuming this section of the rules I have found are up to date.


Player May Play Ball as It Lies in Penalty Area or Take Penalty Relief
The player may either:
  • Play the ball as it lies without penalty, under the same Rules that apply to a ball in the general area (which means there are no specific Rules limiting how a ball may be played from a penalty area), or
  • Play a ball from outside the penalty area by taking penalty relief under Rule 17.1d or 17.2.


Seems to suggest you can ground your club and move loose impediments?
 

Slab

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Yup, the R&A summary text is;

"Penalty areas replace water hazards, and you can move loose impediments, ground your club and take practice swings in penalty areas without penalty, just as you can on the fairway or in the rough"
 

Slab

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Have many forumers utilized this rule change yet?

Back in Jan I did ground my club (didn't need to I just wanted to know what it felt like) since then I've also moved a LI (it did feel a bit weird)
 

rulefan

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I moved the margin of a lateral water hazard some 30' away from the river when it became a penalty area. Because the river goes up and down, players had had problems with the overflow casual water. The land we have now included was eminently playable most of the time but if the ball had been in the LWH but not the water, the old restrictions would have been unfair.
Now players have got the freedom. But many players still haven't cottoned on and are being very careful about what they do.
 

patricks148

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Have many forumers utilized this rule change yet?

Back in Jan I did ground my club (didn't need to I just wanted to know what it felt like) since then I've also moved a LI (it did feel a bit weird)
the Moray firth is in play on the first 7 holes at Nairn so you regularly see play off the beach, pebbles moved last week, which prev would have seen you almost drop back where it crossed just in front of the 4th Green, which is infront of the 5th tee.
 

Twire

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I moved the margin of a lateral water hazard some 30' away from the river when it became a penalty area. Because the river goes up and down, players had had problems with the overflow casual water. The land we have now included was eminently playable most of the time but if the ball had been in the LWH but not the water, the old restrictions would have been unfair.
Now players have got the freedom. But many players still haven't cottoned on and are being very careful about what they do.
Surely an email and notice on the board explaining the reason why the hazard/penalty area posts were moved and you can now ground your club would have been a simple communication!
 

azazel

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The entire left side of our first hole is a red penalty area, part of which has to be crossed from the tee. As it’s a beach, and the tide almost never makes it all the way to the course itself, it’s extremely common to see people playing from there. Being able to remove loose impediments this year has made the beach much less penal, which overall has been a good thing.
 

rulie

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As the original poster did, players can easily find their own answers with a little initiative; spoon-feeding shouldn't always be expected.
 

rulefan

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Surely an email and notice on the board explaining the reason why the hazard/penalty area posts were moved and you can now ground your club would have been a simple communication!
If you want to keep a secret, post it on a notice board (and send golf club members an email).
In addition to a Rules Evening explaining the 2019 rules, a Newsletter and an email was sent to all members explaining that issue specifically, together with why opposite side relief was not available for red PAs and why the LR for stones in bunkers was no longer on the card.
I am still getting questions about the last item.
 
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Have many forumers utilized this rule change yet?

Back in Jan I did ground my club (didn't need to I just wanted to know what it felt like) since then I've also moved a LI (it did feel a bit weird)
I think the change is pretty well known at our place. And welcomed.

We have a number of relatively shallow drainage lines - ditches if you like - usually lined with trees, and which rarely have water in them. A ball is generally easily played from within them. But because of the trees there is usually a fine collection of sticks, twigs, and branches in them, meaning a ball in a decent lie is, as like as not, to be badly compromised. Old rules, tough! New rules, move the loose impediment. Great!
 

Jacko_G

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As the original poster did, players can easily find their own answers with a little initiative; spoon-feeding shouldn't always be expected.
And why the attitude in the reply? One common theme that seems to rum amongst most of the "rules experts" is a holier than thou attitude. Maybe people ask to clarify or to back up some knowledge of the rules.
 

rulie

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And why the attitude in the reply? One common theme that seems to rum amongst most of the "rules experts" is a holier than thou attitude. Maybe people ask to clarify or to back up some knowledge of the rules.
Maybe they do, maybe they don't? I fully respect those seeking clarification or further knowledge and will assist when possible.
 
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The entire left side of our first hole is a red penalty area, part of which has to be crossed from the tee. As it’s a beach, and the tide almost never makes it all the way to the course itself, it’s extremely common to see people playing from there. Being able to remove loose impediments this year has made the beach much less penal, which overall has been a good thing.
Were you watching me last month ? ;)
 

pauljames87

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Have many forumers utilized this rule change yet?

Back in Jan I did ground my club (didn't need to I just wanted to know what it felt like) since then I've also moved a LI (it did feel a bit weird)
I tried telling someone he could play out the pen area last week and he didn’t believe me..

Will show him the rule
 

pauljames87

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I suspect his was confusing PAs and NPZs
He really wasn’t!! He was just stubborn and wouldn’t have it at all.. even though it was for the benefit of him

Just like when every time someone was say 20 yards in front of him out of his shoot window ready to play “wish people would stay behind me”

It’s ready golf now.. move with it
 
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