Make sure your club is obeying all the Health and Safety Regulations

Wayman

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Local club to me (not mine) have the tee times in 2balls and at 6min intervals. It’s a course where a lot of visitors go so it’s money making for owner
 
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Yes Crown have set some proper rules and these have been implemented across the group. It just seems as though the Health and Safety Executive have decided to check up on golf courses and it only needs one or two idiots to potentially ruin it for everyone else.
I'm not disputing what you have heard, but I am intrigued as to which specific body 'visited' Oak Park. Do you know? I ask more out of concern - a golf club I know of which is local to me, has scheduled to put out 2 balls only 5 minutes apart on Saturday morning...
 

Chico84

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Jan 23, 2020
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I guess my club is trying to. Clearly states on the booking sheet 2 balls only, 3 or 4 balls only allowed with household members(you had to call to book a 3 or 4 ball) no taking the flag out, one per buggy, no raking bunkers.

Was so happy when I went to book and seen 35 four balls booked in over the course of the day(While not impossible, I find it highly improbable that they where 35 sets of 4 people all living together, and I know 3 weren’t since I have played in a group with some of them and they do not live together) also was great to see there was 4, four balls in front of me, every single group took the flag out, stayed pretty grouped together and one group shared a buggy. Also you was only meant to go to the tee 5 minutes before your booking, as we drove past the first, we seen around 12 blokes all standing next to each other chatting away.

So really what even is the point in saying you have to call to book for a four ball and it’s only for household members, if you legit just let anybody call and book as a 4?

Unless it gets enforced see zero reason even making rules.
If this is the case then this needs to be dealt with quickly and without any hesitation. This kind of thing will lead to privileges being taken away. If we end up in any future lockdowns then even anecdotal evidence of flagrant flouting of the rules will see golf looked on less favourably as part of any relaxing of lockdown. Now if the government ever actually manage to get a proper track and trace system in place and they can link reinfection to idiots like those you observed I suspect we would see golf banned or very severely restricted for a much greater period of time.
 
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If this is the case then this needs to be dealt with quickly and without any hesitation. This kind of thing will lead to privileges being taken away. If we end up in any future lockdowns then even anecdotal evidence of flagrant flouting of the rules will see golf looked on less favourably as part of any relaxing of lockdown. Now if the government ever actually manage to get a proper track and trace system in place and they can link reinfection to idiots like those you observed I suspect we would see golf banned or very severely restricted for a much greater period of time.
Feel the same, will be giving feedback to the course, maybe they aren’t aware (but since you have to call to book 3 or 4 balls who knows 🤷)

I just don’t know why people are refusing to leave the flagstick in, it is a simple request there is no reason to ignore it.

If it was a few people I could justify it, but based on my experience yesterday it accounted for around 40% of the bookings, today is even worse. Though today’s 4 balls seem concentrated in the morning.
 

fundy

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Local club to me (not mine) have the tee times in 2balls and at 6min intervals. It’s a course where a lot of visitors go so it’s money making for owner
I'm not disputing what you have heard, but I am intrigued as to which specific body 'visited' Oak Park. Do you know? I ask more out of concern - a golf club I know of which is local to me, has scheduled to put out 2 balls only 5 minutes apart on Saturday morning...
we have 6 minutes, 6 minutes, 6 minutes, now 5, 5 minutes, any advance on 5 minute intervals? going once........
 
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I guess my club is trying to. Clearly states on the booking sheet 2 balls only, 3 or 4 balls only allowed with household members(you had to call to book a 3 or 4 ball) no taking the flag out, one per buggy, no raking bunkers.

Was so happy when I went to book and seen 35 four balls booked in over the course of the day(While not impossible, I find it highly improbable that they where 35 sets of 4 people all living together, and I know 3 weren’t since I have played in a group with some of them and they do not live together) also was great to see there was 4, four balls in front of me, every single group took the flag out, stayed pretty grouped together and one group shared a buggy. Also you was only meant to go to the tee 5 minutes before your booking, as we drove past the first, we seen around 12 blokes all standing next to each other chatting away.

So really what even is the point in saying you have to call to book for a four ball and it’s only for household members, if you legit just let anybody call and book as a 4?

Unless it gets enforced see zero reason even making rules.
Pay and Play courses simply want to maximise revenue with no concern for Health and Safety.
I would report to Police or England Golf.
 

GB72

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For who ? Crown golf
The HSE is a national body that monitors and investigates Health and Safety issues. It was announced the other night that they are responsible for ensuring compliance with covid health and safety guidelines. Not sure that their role stretches to on course behaviour but can certainly check on work place compliance. Actually not sure how the current on course regulations stand from a legal and enforcement point of view.
 

Chico84

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The HSE is a national body that monitors and investigates Health and Safety issues. It was announced the other night that they are responsible for ensuring compliance with covid health and safety guidelines. Not sure that their role stretches to on course behaviour but can certainly check on work place compliance. Actually not sure how the current on course regulations stand from a legal and enforcement point of view.
I’m no expert but I’d have thought that as it is technically a place of work for green keepers, club staff, etc that there is a certain duty of care required from the club itself. If it is allowing people to break the rules I wonder if they might be in a position to be held liable? And before anyone mentions it, yes, I am aware that there are plenty of idiots in the supermarkets too. The difference is that those are seen as essential workplaces and the police have been involved in a number if incidents there. As much as many would believe, a golf course isn’t an essential service and could easily be shut down if required to protect the health of the public and its employees.
 

GB72

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I’m no expert but I’d have thought that as it is technically a place of work for green keepers, club staff, etc that there is a certain duty of care required from the club itself. If it is allowing people to break the rules I wonder if they might be in a position to be held liable? And before anyone mentions it, yes, I am aware that there are plenty of idiots in the supermarkets too. The difference is that those are seen as essential workplaces and the police have been involved in a number if incidents there. As much as many would believe, a golf course isn’t an essential service and could easily be shut down if required to protect the health of the public and its employees.
It is and I can understand the HSE having an involvement in the workplace practices in relation to staff safety but not sure if it extends to people being idiots on the course as their contact with staff out there should be pretty minimal.
 

GB72

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OK, had a chat with my wife who has been working in health and safety for over 20 years and what she had to say was interesting and concerning from a club point of view.

Her understanding is that the HSE can inspect a club for 2 reasons, the obvious one which is to check working practices but the other is on the grounds of public safety on the course and this is where they can look at the behaviour of the golfers. The first thing to point out is that if the HSE visit and find nothing, it costs nothing. If they find something, however minor, they can charge for the visit and subsequent work.

If there is a breach discovered, maybe 2 groups joining as a 4 ball, they can serve a notice requiring rectification or, in the worst case, serve a prohibition notice closing the course until all necessary improvements to policy and procedure are made and until those changes are approved by the HSE and the prohibition is lifted.

Also worth noting that having policies in place and advising golfers of them is not enough for HSE purposes. Compliance also has to be monitored and so those courses not using marshals or not using them sufficiently may have an issue.

I never thought that the HSE would be involved like this but clearly there is some desire to ensure compliance on golf courses (and I suspect at all other recently opening sporting clubs). So, looks like Golf Clubs need to beware, they are on the radar for the time being.
 

Traminator

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OK, had a chat with my wife who has been working in health and safety for over 20 years and what she had to say was interesting and concerning from a club point of view.

Her understanding is that the HSE can inspect a club for 2 reasons, the obvious one which is to check working practices but the other is on the grounds of public safety on the course and this is where they can look at the behaviour of the golfers. The first thing to point out is that if the HSE visit and find nothing, it costs nothing. If they find something, however minor, they can charge for the visit and subsequent work.

If there is a breach discovered, maybe 2 groups joining as a 4 ball, they can serve a notice requiring rectification or, in the worst case, serve a prohibition notice closing the course until all necessary improvements to policy and procedure are made and until those changes are approved by the HSE and the prohibition is lifted.

Also worth noting that having policies in place and advising golfers of them is not enough for HSE purposes. Compliance also has to be monitored and so those courses not using marshals or not using them sufficiently may have an issue.

I never thought that the HSE would be involved like this but clearly there is some desire to ensure compliance on golf courses (and I suspect at all other recently opening sporting clubs). So, looks like Golf Clubs need to beware, they are on the radar for the time being.
That's great info.
After seeing the brilliant work and communication at my new place, compared to a minority of cases as witnessed by forum members, all these checks can only be a good thing.
Any clubs and memberships doing it properly have nothing to worry about, any not taking it seriously are at risk of getting closed.

The question was asked several times "why can only members play?". I think this reinforces the answer that members can be held accountable whereas visitors just can't be. It's tough on the vast majority of pay and play golfers, but as always it's the idiot minority who ruin it for the rest.
 
Thread starter #35
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Oct 16, 2013
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I have already volunteered to marshal Saturday and Sunday morning. Need to set an example! I can then play late afternoon.
 
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Apr 22, 2012
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I think England Golf sent out guidelines re Marshals which my club is following plus some extras.
Monitor entry to club to ensure people have a booking, Marshall at First tee to remind about 2m rule, not touching flagsticks (we have a ball lifter on pin) plus marshal roaming course on buggy. That's mainly to ensure safety of public using footpaths
 
Thread starter #38
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I have asked if marshals will be issued with guidance, shotguns, tasers or at least very large sticks. If not, I'm prepared to bring my own.
 

Bigfoot

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May 11, 2009
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Stourbridge , West Midlands
Booking as a 4 ball is impossible at the moment on our (intelligent golf) booking system. We allow 3 balls from the same household but the third person does not have to book. We have a starter and course rangers to ensure no groups have joined up to make 4 balls and social distance rules are being observed.
I have found booking on Intelligent Golf impossible full stop at present.
 

jim8flog

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May 20, 2017
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Yeovil
I have found booking on Intelligent Golf impossible full stop at present.
they certainly were in near melt down on Tuesday and a lot of Wednesday. working fine now for us.

One of the problems was probably - they let clubs furlough the associated cost Tee Booking part of the system and it was removed then suddenly they had 1000s of club all wanting to restart it on the same day.
 
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