Launch or spin

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IainP

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Forgive me, another "bored in a hotel thread", and yes I know having a fitting is the answer ... but not tonight.

I have always seemed to have had a high ball flight with pretty high spin. Before the forum days I never bothered with more premuim balls as stopping a value ball didn't seem a problem (although have more recently been using them more for short game).

Anyway I am guilty of adding dynamic loft, even with a steep AoA.

I was fortunate to have the opportunity for a driver fitting courtesy of GM & TM last spring and was handed a 8.5 degree loft with a low spin low launch shaft.

After a busy golf season I did take a lesson in November. My path had wandered off and the dynamic loft was highlighted again. I have been putting in some range work on the path and seeing some results.
My last knock had me very straight on the majority of shots, but too many came up short.
Whilst I will aim to address my swing issue I have started thinking why don't I follow the driver, and seek out some low launching, low spinning irons to help out in the meantime.

Of course all this fancy new tech is trying to up the launch and spin despite the jacked lofts. Plus all the reviewing YouTube pros have "proper" launch conditions.

But I have seen some that are commented on for being low launch, and others for low spin. (i.e. Benross type R, & Benross Evolution R)

Has anyone else tried anything similar, or generally have thoughts on this area?

Cheers
 

murphthemog

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The shaft in an iron can probably add, remove 500 rpm. Given a wedge spins at roughly 8000 to 10000 rpm, it is not going to have much effect. Even in a longer iron. You hit down on them, with a lofted club, designed to spin.

Drivers, ideal spin is 2000 odd, depending on launch. Plus / minus a few hundred, big difference.
 
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You'd struggle to get low launch and low spin irons in the one package, blades are low launch irons which should spin more and gi irons launch high and spin less.
You could try a heavy low launch shaft like a DG X100 but it probably would only make your life more difficult, if you add loft and are steep at the same time you will always suffer with poor contact and a high ball flight. You would be more prudent to have lessons to address the flip/breakdown of lead arm and wrist than to buy a set of irons, the irons really wouldn't help you IMO.
 

saving_par

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You'd struggle to get low launch and low spin irons in the one package, blades are low launch irons which should spin more and gi irons launch high and spin less.
You could try a heavy low launch shaft like a DG X100 but it probably would only make your life more difficult, if you add loft and are steep at the same time you will always suffer with poor contact and a high ball flight. You would be more prudent to have lessons to address the flip/breakdown of lead arm and wrist than to buy a set of irons, the irons really wouldn't help you IMO.
Good advice, spending on equipment is not addressing the underlying fault.
Work with a decent coach to improve technique and build a more efficient swing.
Look at the amount of shaft lean the pro's have at impact, that's why they hit irons ridiculous distances.
 
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I hit a high ball, I've even had 7 degree drivers with low launch shafts and i still hit it into oblivion, it literally made little to no difference for me having a high or low launch set up i'd still balloon it. Mainly because I was adding so much dynamic loft it couldn't be countered by my equipment.

Same with my irons. I hit my blades just as high as I did my AP2's. My AP2's had a higher launching Project X shaft my Blades have KBS C-Tapers which are designed for high ball hitters to provide lower trajectory.

Just starting with a new coach to see what we can do, I feel no gear can compensate for the dynamic loft that I'm adding, if I could just get my launch angle a touch lower I have a few extra yards in the bag and a ball flight that doesn't leave me at the peril of the wind quite so much.

He has a GC2 and lots of swing analysis software so thats what I'm solely focussing on the next few months ready for summer.

Personally I've never found any low launch shaft / technology that can counteract my swing maybe I'm too far off the scales for it to take effect but for me it literally makes no difference.
 
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I think there is a difference in approach to Drivers and Irons in terms of what they are designed to do.

Generally with a Driver they are trying to get it to go the furthest distance - combination of carry and roll. Therefore they need an angle that carries the ball through the air a decent distance, but doesn't just stick in the turf when it lands.

With an iron, they are looking more to go a consistent distance, but stop when they get there. i.e. no one is going to want a 6 iron that goes 170 yards if it was 140 carry and 30 yards roll. More like 170 carry, stop dead is more what you would aim for.

I have also come round to this way of thinking with regards to low spinning drivers.
These are designed for guys who hit the ball a long way and suffer from high spin throwing the ball miles up in the air and lose distance.

If you are losing distance there is the potential that the combination of low spin and low loft doesn't allow you to get the ball high enough in the air to take advantage of your speed through the ball. There is obviously a sweet spot, either higher spin or higher loft might mean a better ball flight and more distance.

Andrew Ainsworth

I found this video fascinating with regards to the benefits of having more loft in a low spinning driver. Getting over 200 yards out of an 85mph swing seems to be exactly what a lot of handicap golfers need.
 
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There are some great drills to address your issues, if you play the ball slightly forward of middle, setup with a slightly exaggerated shaft lean, handle in front of your left thigh, on your downswing feel like you want to drive the ball forward under goalposts. There's also numerous other drills but that one worked for me to decrease launch angle. There may be other more important issues for you to address though
 
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If you ever watch Justin rose rehearsals before iron shots he basically drills this to fight his tendency to come too much from the inside, Alex noren aswell
 

Wabinez

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for me, the worst thing you could have is 'low spin' irons. Distance control could go out of the window...spin is your friend at keeping the ball in the air, and stopping appropriately.

Delivery and strike are the keys to work on. Sounds like a douch'y thing to say...but I am going through the same thing right now, so know what you are going through! Currently have an 8.5* driver, and deliver about 7* up on the ball, so my dynamic loft is through the roof. Trying to work on delivering the club better to reduce this by 4/5*.

Work. In. Progress.
 

duncan mackie

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for me, the worst thing you could have is 'low spin' irons. Distance control could go out of the window...spin is your friend at keeping the ball in the air, and stopping appropriately.

Delivery and strike are the keys to work on. Sounds like a douch'y thing to say...but I am going through the same thing right now, so know what you are going through! Currently have an 8.5* driver, and deliver about 7* up on the ball, so my dynamic loft is through the roof. Trying to work on delivering the club better to reduce this by 4/5*.

Work. In. Progress.
Far from through the roof, you are only about 1° - 2° off optimum with a launch angle of 15.5°; and that assumes a good swing speed. For a low swing speed it may even be optimum!

Admittedly most people wouldn't be at your extremes with anything less that 110. I take it you create too much spin with more loft and a more natural (say 9.5 + 4.5°) set up.

Plus 7 must take some tee height as well!
 
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Far from through the roof, you are only about 1° - 2° off optimum with a launch angle of 15.5°; and that assumes a good swing speed. For a low swing speed it may even be optimum!

Admittedly most people wouldn't be at your extremes with anything less that 110. I take it you create too much spin with more loft and a more natural (say 9.5 + 4.5°) set up.

Plus 7 must take some tee height as well!
Yeah I'd agree unless your swinging 110 mph + your probably not far off optimal launch conditions. The only thing with such a positive attack angle is you can struggle to put much spin on the ball meaning it doesn't take much spin axis tilt for it to go a good bit offline. Most amateur golfers would benefit from hitting more up to optimise carry. I swing at 114mph average with driver and I find I hit it optimal carry wise with about a 13-14 degree launch
 

Wabinez

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Far from through the roof, you are only about 1° - 2° off optimum with a launch angle of 15.5°; and that assumes a good swing speed. For a low swing speed it may even be optimum!

Admittedly most people wouldn't be at your extremes with anything less that 110. I take it you create too much spin with more loft and a more natural (say 9.5 + 4.5°) set up.

Plus 7 must take some tee height as well!
You’d be surprised..! It’s all in the flip I must put in. Strike is usually towards the bottom of the face too. It’s something I am trying to improve!
 

jim8flog

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I once tried bring my iron height down by changing shafts.

I had a period of trying nearly every metal shaft on the market. I do a bit of my own club building and had 3 identical 6 iron heads and tried 3 different shaft against each other (on the course over 9 holes) on several different occasions with different shafts. I came to the conclusion that there is very little real difference when it came to height of flight that I could actually notice in the course of play.
 

garyinderry

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You’d be surprised..! It’s all in the flip I must put in. Strike is usually towards the bottom of the face too. It’s something I am trying to improve!
I am in the exact same situation. I had a 10.5 and spun the life of out it. Bought the same head in 7.5 and works just fine. Sticking plaster, yep, functional, absolutely.
 
Thread starter #15

IainP

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Thanks for the replies. As said in OP am, and will be working to change. Am generally a "workman not the tools" person. Partly this time of year has me looking at clubs and reviews, and partly thinking if I perhaps am striving to take maybe 10 degrees plus of a mid iron that this may take a while so whether there were things to give a helping start.
I'll take a closer look at the numbers on next lesson and review the drills listed on here also.
 

saving_par

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Thanks for the replies. As said in OP am, and will be working to change. Am generally a "workman not the tools" person. Partly this time of year has me looking at clubs and reviews, and partly thinking if I perhaps am striving to take maybe 10 degrees plus of a mid iron that this may take a while so whether there were things to give a helping start.
I'll take a closer look at the numbers on next lesson and review the drills listed on here also.
Parsaregood has given some excellent advice on here.

I had a trackman session with my pro this week which shows I have too much loft at impact.

Worked had to get a good consistent path, face angle is now controlled at impact, aoa is good but no shaft lean causing higher than optimum launch and high spin than we want to see. This is inefficient and undoes all the good work on the other bits of the swing.

Solution is easy, hands need to be further ahead at impact, same as you need. The goalposts drill is a an excellent one as is using a DST compressor, you cannot hit that if you flip, it will go sideways.

Won't be easy, I'm Cat 1 and I'm finding it a struggle to work this into my swing on a consistant basis, all the other pieces are theree but this last one is taking time.

Stick at it, practice hard but properly also (Practice swings with the correct swing thought every shot). Get this right and it will be a game changer because if you are flipping there is no way you can hit good shots consistantly, too much reliance on the hands at impact.
 
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