Latest London Stabbing

woofers

Medal Winner
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
144
Location
West Sussex
Heard on the radio that the local MP (Stella Creasy) is asking for more resources for the police and youth workers to help combat these crimes. Also read that a local resident said “the system” is failing these youths.
What “system” would that be ?
What about parental responsibility? If my 14 year old was riding around on a moped I would ask where it came from, along with stopping him from riding it because it is illegal.
 

woofers

Medal Winner
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
144
Location
West Sussex
So, relaxing the stop and search rules was a good thing?

Surely, if more black kids are being stabbed and killed, and the perpetrators are predominately black kids, then the stop and search rules should be strengthened and the penalties for carrying weapons should be more penal?
Agree
 

Papas1982

Tour Winner
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
5,286
Location
Canterbury
Heard on the radio that the local MP (Stella Creasy) is asking for more resources for the police and youth workers to help combat these crimes. Also read that a local resident said “the system” is failing these youths.
What “system” would that be ?
What about parental responsibility? If my 14 year old was riding around on a moped I would ask where it came from, along with stopping him from riding it because it is illegal.
Are all these kids in stable families? Or are the part of Families that have for generations got by with the help of ill gotten earnings? I got up to loads my parents didn’t kniw about. Granted nothing like this, but to think parents know all the kids get up to is imo optimistic at best.

For me there needs thougher punishments. Stop and search should be back, but imo that involves to much red tape.
 

Captainron

Tour Winner
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
3,617
Location
Rural Lincolnshire
So, relaxing the stop and search rules was a good thing?

Surely, if more black kids are being stabbed and killed, and the perpetrators are predominately black kids, then the stop and search rules should be strengthened and the penalties for carrying weapons should be more penal?
There was a lot of press about the stop and search policy being racist as there was a disproportionately high percentage of black males being searched??

Am I wrong in thinking that the majority of fatal stabbings/shootings have been perpetrated by black males on black males? (press seem to portray this but we know how they can be)

If this is the case then the stop and searches should be stepped up to help reduce the number of weapons on the streets. Obviously social reform will need to help with changing attitudes but this is a slow burn.
 

SocketRocket

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
11,467
Are all these kids in stable families? Or are the part of Families that have for generations got by with the help of ill gotten earnings? I got up to loads my parents didn’t kniw about. Granted nothing like this, but to think parents know all the kids get up to is imo optimistic at best.

For me it needs tougher punishments. Stop and search should be back, but imo that involves to much red tape.
The problem the Police have is that the vast majority of this knife crimes are committed by Black Males but if they target this group for stop and search they are branded racist.
 

chrisd

Major Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
18,619
Location
Kent
The problem the Police have is that the vast majority of this knife crimes are committed by Black Males but if they target this group for stop and search they are branded racist.
Exactly, but I dont see how stop and searching the main group who appear to carry, and use, knives can be racist whereas its protecting them!
 

HomerJSimpson

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
57,886
Location
Bracknell - Berkshire
So the family and friends all saying he'd never been in trouble, no gang relations etc but yet he's riding a moped under aged and illegally. If it was a targeted attack, there must be some pre-meditation and motive behind it
 

Liverpoolphil

Grand Slam Winner
Joined
Jan 23, 2012
Messages
30,092
Location
Leighton Buzzard
EDIT
EDIT
EDIT

It was the murder of a child!!!

Some of you need to look in a mirror and ask yourself some very serious questions. The murder of a child, and you're focussing on him being an underage moped rider. Get a bloody grip of yourself.
This - tried so hard not to comment on this

But a 14 year old boy has been murdered and some people on here focusing on him being on a moped !
 

Tashyboy

Money List Winner
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
8,048
So, relaxing the stop and search rules was a good thing?

Surely, if more black kids are being stabbed and killed, and the perpetrators are predominately black kids, then the stop and search rules should be strengthened and the penalties for carrying weapons should be more penal?
Oddly enough. The London Mayor has said that he would like to see more stop and searches. So now we have to listen to the PC brigade saying they are rascist. If most of the people killed are Black or the people that stab are black, is it not common sense to stop and search all folk including blacks.
Re the comment of "if there kid was 14 and on a moped", yup been there and done that. My daughter set off down the road on the back of one with no helmet on. I knew where she was going so I went through the back gate and stopped the twat who was driving the scooter. Told him if he does it again al torch his scooter. Told her and him, I go to bed some nights seeing the face of a beautiful 14 yr old girl. I did resuscitation on her for 5 mins. I knew she was dead, she had a hole in her head coz she never wore a helmet.
I knew I was talking to two village idiots who knew better.
 

HomerJSimpson

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
57,886
Location
Bracknell - Berkshire
EDIT
EDIT
EDIT

It was the murder of a child!!!

Some of you need to look in a mirror and ask yourself some very serious questions. The murder of a child, and you're focussing on him being an underage moped rider. Get a bloody grip of yourself.
I get that and the family are right in saying no one deserves to die like that https://news.sky.com/story/jayden-m...deserves-to-die-in-that-horrific-way-11603890 However you cannot paint him as a total innocent if he's out at night on a moped illegally and I would question why any gang would deliberately target an innocent kid. I can't see it being some random attack. Just my opinion and perhaps it says more about the low value placed on human lie and the prevalence of knife culture in the UK. You only have to look at the father stabbed to death in front of his son and the sad knife crime statistics in London alone
 

SocketRocket

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
11,467
We need to adopt a system of zero tolerance with knife and gun crime. The Police and Judiciary need to be singing from the same hym sheet. If someone is found carrying an illegal weapon then there should be a compulsory prison sentence and quite a substantial one, preferably hard labour. The Yogurt knitters have a lot to answer for here where their PC hand wringing has made the police and courts scared of the racist card being shown.
 

Hobbit

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Messages
11,841
Location
Los Gallardos
I get that and the family are right in saying no one deserves to die like that https://news.sky.com/story/jayden-m...deserves-to-die-in-that-horrific-way-11603890 However you cannot paint him as a total innocent if he's out at night on a moped illegally and I would question why any gang would deliberately target an innocent kid. I can't see it being some random attack. Just my opinion and perhaps it says more about the low value placed on human lie and the prevalence of knife culture in the UK. You only have to look at the father stabbed to death in front of his son and the sad knife crime statistics in London alone
Where in my post did I paint him as innocent? Without reading your link, I'm well aware of his background - the joys of being retired, reading various papers and online news channels. But a 14 yr old child has been murdered....

At 14 I was out at night, and occasionally being a bad boy doing something stupid. I cringe when I look back. And I know what me and my mates ended up doing for jobs etc. That kid could have turned out to be the doctor that cured the common cold. What a complete waste of a young life, and some people want to dilute the issue by saying he was riding a moped... just bloody wow!
 

bluewolf

Money List Winner
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Messages
8,713
Location
St. Andish
I get that and the family are right in saying no one deserves to die like that https://news.sky.com/story/jayden-m...deserves-to-die-in-that-horrific-way-11603890 However you cannot paint him as a total innocent if he's out at night on a moped illegally and I would question why any gang would deliberately target an innocent kid. I can't see it being some random attack. Just my opinion and perhaps it says more about the low value placed on human lie and the prevalence of knife culture in the UK. You only have to look at the father stabbed to death in front of his son and the sad knife crime statistics in London alone
FFS Homer, you are one of the people placing a low value on human life!! He was a 14 year old kid. No matter what he was doing, he deserved the right to live his life and if necessary, turn it around. My son is 14. Fortunately he's a good kid. Better than I was when I was his age. Your logic would have put me in the ground.
 

Wolf

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2018
Messages
1,797
Location
Lincolnshire
Where in my post did I paint him as innocent? Without reading your link, I'm well aware of his background - the joys of being retired, reading various papers and online news channels. But a 14 yr old child has been murdered....

At 14 I was out at night, and occasionally being a bad boy doing something stupid. I cringe when I look back. And I know what me and my mates ended up doing for jobs etc. That kid could have turned out to be the doctor that cured the common cold. What a complete waste of a young life, and some people want to dilute the issue by saying he was riding a moped... just bloody wow!
Totally agree with this.

Whether the kid had a troubled childhood or not he was still a child at the end of the day, no child deserves this outcome or flippant comments about what he may or may not have been upto.

I was a 14 year old lad once went to school in a rough area and got up to alsorts and I'll admit that included some illegal riding of a moped or trail bike across fields with no helmet amongst other things, being one of the cool kids. One of the reasons my dad got me into golf was to get me away from this behaviour and started understanding and respecting people and life more. Best thing he ever did because in the end straightened me out and led to a decent career in the military and now I'm a responsible adult with a 13 year old son that's a hell of a lot better than I was.

But like bluewolf based on some these comments on here and other places I've seen today, I should have been cast off like this kid. He could have turned his life arou d and become successful and even helped others like him so the same we won't ever know as he has not got that chance now. Come on we need to have a little compassion and understand he was a child instead of just writing everyone off as a bad egg... If the world had more compassion it would be a much better place imo....
 

chrisd

Major Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
18,619
Location
Kent
Where in my post did I paint him as innocent? Without reading your link, I'm well aware of his background - the joys of being retired, reading various papers and online news channels. But a 14 yr old child has been murdered....

At 14 I was out at night, and occasionally being a bad boy doing something stupid. I cringe when I look back. And I know what me and my mates ended up doing for jobs etc. That kid could have turned out to be the doctor that cured the common cold. What a complete waste of a young life, and some people want to dilute the issue by saying he was riding a moped... just bloody wow!
On BBC news 5 minutes ago his family said he moved to London from Nottingham recently and had no gang affiliation so the reason for his murder is not clear but like Brian I reckon the scooter riding is only a very small issue and certainly not one that should be used to paint his murder as anything other than a cold bloodied act for which I doubt the scooter incident should be used to besmirch the lad
 

Slab

Money List Winner
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Messages
6,210
Location
Port Louis
EDIT
EDIT
EDIT

It was the murder of a child!!!

Some of you need to look in a mirror and ask yourself some very serious questions. The murder of a child, and you're focussing on him being an underage moped rider. Get a bloody grip of yourself.

While I 'liked' your post its safe to say there will be plenty of social media outlets discussing how much of a tragedy it is for a boy of 14 to be murdered, more still to offer sympathy and for some to remember the positive impact this child had on other people lives
But does that mean there can be no comments about the circumstances surrounding his murder (especially since to most of us it appears so abhorrent and out of kilter will normal life) but it's probably true to say no one on this forum will care enough about this poor lad to discuss this in a few weeks’ time after what might be seen as a suitable period of time has passed

If news reports are to be believed (and it’s a pity they all can’t be) the lad himself says he was a drugs courier which would support a theory of a targeted attack, and if true it’s likely that the bike was a big part in this, so authorities will be focusing on where it came from, why he was riding it etc and when & where did he go (all seemingly without the knowledge of any of his family)

Society will be (or at least should be) shocked and saddened that a 14 year old boy was stabbed to death and as part of that shock (& maybe to try to get any semblance of understanding) some will naturally want to ask questions about the events that seems out of sync with normal behavior for our society, which must include how & why is a 14yr old able to freely ride a bike illegally in one of the most observed cities in the world (cctv)

This child wasn’t killed walking to school or jogging to boxing training, he was stabbed after being knocked off a bike that society and the law says he should never have been on in the first place. Some people will want to believe if he hadn’t been on the bike then maybe, somehow this tragedy wouldn’t of happened. So in that context it seems natural for them to question ‘why’
 

HomerJSimpson

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
57,886
Location
Bracknell - Berkshire
While I 'liked' your post its safe to say there will be plenty of social media outlets discussing how much of a tragedy it is for a boy of 14 to be murdered, more still to offer sympathy and for some to remember the positive impact this child had on other people lives
But does that mean there can be no comments about the circumstances surrounding his murder (especially since to most of us it appears so abhorrent and out of kilter will normal life) but it's probably true to say no one on this forum will care enough about this poor lad to discuss this in a few weeks’ time after what might be seen as a suitable period of time has passed

If news reports are to be believed (and it’s a pity they all can’t be) the lad himself says he was a drugs courier which would support a theory of a targeted attack, and if true it’s likely that the bike was a big part in this, so authorities will be focusing on where it came from, why he was riding it etc and when & where did he go (all seemingly without the knowledge of any of his family)

Society will be (or at least should be) shocked and saddened that a 14 year old boy was stabbed to death and as part of that shock (& maybe to try to get any semblance of understanding) some will naturally want to ask questions about the events that seems out of sync with normal behavior for our society, which must include how & why is a 14yr old able to freely ride a bike illegally in one of the most observed cities in the world (cctv)

This child wasn’t killed walking to school or jogging to boxing training, he was stabbed after being knocked off a bike that society and the law says he should never have been on in the first place. Some people will want to believe if he hadn’t been on the bike then maybe, somehow this tragedy wouldn’t of happened. So in that context it seems natural for them to question ‘why’
Excellent post and sums up to a degree my own clumsy way of putting it. Clearly there were things going on the family didn't know about and if the drug courier part is correct then it goes some way to explaining why he was out illegally riding at night. Of course its tragic that any child should die, especially murdered but this wasn't as a result of a RTA, illness or any other similar (and tragic) circumstance but (AND ONLY GOING ON THE NEWS REPORTS) if he has deliberately set out to operate in drug operations and move in those circles, he would have be aware and told of the risks involved by peers. I do not condone the murder of the boy irrespective of what may or may not have happened drugs related and the outcome would seem to outweigh any wrong doing he may have been perceived to have done but there again with the increase in gun and knife crime in London in particular, does it really come as (tragice)surprise?
 
Top