Is this racism?

pauldj42

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So what your saying is that we shouldn't celebrate Christmas or tell Irish jokes because some of them may be offended?

I spend some time on political forums, and have done for some years. People with politically correct views more often than not talk themselves into corners, because the concept is generally illogical. Please allow me to give you an example. My son went to university a normal person, and came out a raving snowflake. He hates racism, he hates sexism, he hates violence, he hates religious intolerance, and he hates homophobia. However, when anything is said that resembles a negative remark about the one religion that reflects all of those negative values, he hits the roof. His entire ethos is completely contradictory and hypocritical.
Once again your argument/point of view is to take it to extremes.
Who mentioned not celebrating Christmas or to stop telling Irish jokes!
This is what I mean by more people being upset and taking it to extremes than by those they complain about.
 

Mrs Wiggles

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Once again your argument/point of view is to take it to extremes.
Who mentioned not celebrating Christmas or to stop telling Irish jokes!
This is what I mean by more people being upset and taking it to extremes than by those they complain about.
Your missing the point a little. I know many people who claim to be fed up by Muslims because they believe they get offended by Christmas. You and I know this isn't true. This untrue rumour originated from a few left wing councils that renamed Christmas winterval. My point being that some racism is self inflicted through the stupidity of our indigenous left wing liberals. The law, along with our government are attempting to force our opinions and behaviour. This action tends to work with a younger generation, but creates resentment amongst older ones.
 

pauldj42

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Your missing the point a little. I know many people who claim to be fed up by Muslims because they believe they get offended by Christmas. You and I know this isn't true. This untrue rumour originated from a few left wing councils that renamed Christmas winterval. My point being that some racism is self inflicted through the stupidity of our indigenous left wing liberals. The law, along with our government are attempting to force our opinions and behaviour. This action tends to work with a younger generation, but creates resentment amongst older ones.
But it’s easier to ignore them and deprive them of the attention their after.
It happens all the time, somebody posts one of these daft stories, 1 person defends the offended, 10 come along to tell us they’re fed up by those being offended on behalf of others and so on and so on.
 

Mrs Wiggles

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But it’s easier to ignore them and deprive them of the attention their after.
It happens all the time, somebody posts one of these daft stories, 1 person defends the offended, 10 come along to tell us they’re fed up by those being offended on behalf of others and so on and so on.
I'm pretty good at ignoring these rumours, but many aren't. The one in question is actually true, and Birmingham council are the guilty party. My point being that it is the lefty liberals who tend to cause the friction, not the people they claim to protect.
 

pauldj42

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I'm pretty good at ignoring these rumours, but many aren't. The one in question is actually true, and Birmingham council are the guilty party. My point being that it is the lefty liberals who tend to cause the friction, not the people they claim to protect.
It takes 2 surfaces to cause friction, some of these idiots and the nonsense they spout ends up meaning the real issues are ignored, sadly everything is lumped together and mocked.
 
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If you can’t see a difference between your mates doing a tribute act and the Black and Minstrel Show, I can’t help you!
I don't know that I disagree with your p.o.v - though they weren't a tribute act...basically just three guys miming and dancing along to a song.

But I am not the person in the audience who does take it the wrong way and decides that three middle-aged white guys don't have to black their faces to do a skit on a black female group. The laugh is actually three middle-aged guys dressed up as glamorous young women in tight sparkly long dresses; loads of lippy, and big hair doing cool dance moves. And sure enough they got the laughs.

But were they to have blacked-up it would only take one individual - most likely someone not a member (the majority of the audience) - to decide that they don't like what they saw; that the guys blacking-up is irrelevant to the laugh, and that the 'girls' skin colour should not come into it. They video it - and post it on social media...and we can all guess the reaction...sadly...

All I am saying is that if you are going to black-up for whatever reason, then be very careful of unintended consequences.
 

pauldj42

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I don't know that I disagree with your p.o.v - though they weren't a tribute act...basically just three guys miming and dancing along to a song.

But I am not the person in the audience who does take it the wrong way and decides that three middle-aged white guys don't have to black their faces to do a skit on a black female group. The laugh is actually three middle-aged guys dressed up as glamorous young women in tight sparkly long dresses; loads of lippy, and big hair doing cool dance moves. And sure enough they got the laughs.

But were they to have blacked-up it would only take one individual - most likely someone not a member (the majority of the audience) - to decide that they don't like what they saw; that the guys blacking-up is irrelevant to the laugh, and that the 'girls' skin colour should not come into it. They video it - and post it on social media...and we can all guess the reaction...sadly...

All I am saying is that if you are going to black-up for whatever reason, then be very careful of unintended consequences.
Again though, let’s say the song was “Baby Love” hit by the Supremes covered by numerous artists including female groups, which act were they mimicking?
Dressing in up in tribute and as part of the persona isn’t the issue, if they’d of put a bone through their nose or wore massive lips or etc etc and emphasied stereotypical features then yes I’d agree they’d be crossing a line.
 
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Again though, let’s say the song was “Baby Love” hit by the Supremes covered by numerous artists including female groups, which act were they mimicking?
Dressing in up in tribute and as part of the persona isn’t the issue, if they’d of put a bone through their nose or wore massive lips or etc etc and emphasied stereotypical features then yes I’d agree they’d be crossing a line.
The risk that anyone runs when blacking up is that someone takes offence and it comes back to bite.

For some any rationale given for the 'blacking-up' is irrelevant, the blacking up is just in itself offensive. So unless you really have to - I might suggest don't do it.

The skit in my club show was done as a laugh. They would not have got more laughs if they had blacked-up., In fact I strongly suspect that some in the audience would have found it unnecessary - maybe not offensive as such - but unnecessary - and I am guessing that there would have been some intakes of breath.

I do ask however - what is it about a famous black musical act that might require a tribute act to black-up. I wonder how many Nat King Cole or Sammy Davis Jnr tribute acts black up?

Our guys thought about it. They decided to not to - both because they realised that they didn't have to - but also as they were conscious that it could have been misrepresented or misunderstood and backfire badly on the club. The correct decision IMO.

BTW - it was 'Stop in The Name Of Love' :)

 
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drdel

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Anyone who thinks the UK citizens are basically racist should decide whether we are worse or better than other nations. We permit a wide variety of religions ad sects to build their temples, Mosques etc. Try doing that or speaking your views in China, the Middle East and elsewhere. We as Brits tend to modify our behaviour when in other countries but we pretty much accept and respect the activities of international visitors.
 

Mrs Wiggles

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Anyone who thinks the UK citizens are basically racist should decide whether we are worse or better than other nations. We permit a wide variety of religions ad sects to build their temples, Mosques etc. Try doing that or speaking your views in China, the Middle East and elsewhere. We as Brits tend to modify our behaviour when in other countries but we pretty much accept and respect the activities of international visitors.
Well said, and you are so right. Unfortunately this isn't enough for our liberal Guardian reading snowflakes.
 

Mrs Wiggles

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The risk that anyone runs when blacking up is that someone takes offence and it comes back to bite.

For some any rationale given for the 'blacking-up' is irrelevant, the blacking up is just in itself offensive.
Offensive to who. I don't personally know anyone who would be offended by it, and I would lay money on nine out of ten black people not being offended either. Unfortunately, and as usual, it's the small minority of people who do get unnecessarily offended who determine our direction. It's a very strange country we live in, and I can't see it getting any less strange
 
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No it's not racist, if a black person put white foundation on would the same question be asked ? I really worry about freedom of speech and expression in this say and age, there are too many people with left wing ideologies trying to be PC. my message to these people is grow up and worry about something worth worrying about
 
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The question would gave been more appropriate if it asked, Are people in society too easily offended and is freedom of speech and expression at risk because of this ?
 

pauldj42

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The question would gave been more appropriate if it asked, Are people in society too easily offended and is freedom of speech and expression at risk because of this ?
No, we’ve always had the moaners, just social media gives them a platform.
99% of people know what standard of behaviour is acceptable along with good manners and common decencey, regardless of when they were born.
 

Liverpoolphil

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The question would gave been more appropriate if it asked, Are people in society too easily offended and is freedom of speech and expression at risk because of this ?
Actually I believe people in society are becoming more tolerant of others - people are more understanding that something that may have been considered funny in the past can now be considered unacceptable. For me it’s forward steps to a more respectable considerate world where free speech is still there but it comes with personal responsibility to ensure everyone’s needs and feelings are catered for
 
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Actually I believe people in society are becoming more tolerant of others - people are more understanding that something that may have been considered funny in the past can now be considered unacceptable. For me it’s forward steps to a more respectable considerate world where free speech is still there but it comes with personal responsibility to ensure everyone’s needs and feelings are catered for
If you think that your crazy, the only thing society has become more to is left wing ideologues putting forward ridiculous policies. Us brits could take a leaf out of the French people's books, and the right to free speech directly correlates with the right to be upset by someone's views, the difference between free speech is about the right to voice your opinions without the worry of upsetting someone, it is a different story to go out and INTENTIONALLY upset someone with your views but if someone is upset upon hearing your views it's their right to be upset as much as it is your right to voice them. It is only wrong to intentionally target a group of people or person with the goal of upsetting them, but if you truly believe what you say your goal isn't to upset anybody it is only to express what you believe to be true
 
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