Football Manager 2020 & FM Touch

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Orikoru

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Anyone else got this during lockdown boredom like I did? If so, how the heck do you win?

I have the FM Touch version as I prefer simplicity, especially as the other game I played most frequently was CM01/02 :LOL:. But nearly at the end of my first season at Spurs, we're scraping 6th place but a good 20 points below the top four. The board are fuming. I got to the Champs Lg quarters and we were unluckily knocked out by Real Madrid, they were still fuming at that though - I've apparently been on the verge of the sack ever since. I've scraped through to the FA Cup final, but much like England at the World Cup we had a very easy run - Forest Green, Cardiff, Luton, Wolves, Brentford! Luck of the draw (literally). Admittedly this is probably a better season than Spurs in real life but the game doesn't know that!

I just don't know how you get any decent consistency. As I said in random irritations last night, we beat Man City 2-0 and then lost 3-0 at home to Bournemouth with pretty much the same side. This sort of thing has happened all season. All my wingers were totally useless every game (honestly what have they done to Son? he was absolutely terrible). So I ended up with a 4-1-2-1-2 / 4-1-2-2-1 with no wingers depending on who is available. Whenever I think I'm getting the hang of it and hitting some form, they lose to Brighton or Norwich or someone. Every single time. The Touch version is meant to be simpler, how hard can it be?

Typical player roles will be something like:
Kane (CF-S)
Alli (SS-A) - Lo Celso (AP-S)
Ndombele (Mez-A) - Sissoko (BB-S)
Dier (BWM-D)
Davies/De Sciglio (WB-S) - Jan/Sanchez(BPD-D) - Toby (CD-D) - Aurier/Foyth (WB-A)
Lloris (SwK-S)
Sometimes instead of Alli there I'll throw Parrott in and push him up as AF-A, or try Son there but he's crap there as well. Sometimes I'll change the right back and Ndombele from Attack to Support if I don't want to be as attacking.


(Just going to quietly tag @Dan2501 as I'm thinking he might be my number 1 hope here.)
 
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I feel your pain. few things you can do, depends how you want to play the game really. If just want to win loads, get through a few seasons and have a bit of fun you can use some of the 'exploit' (they basically take advantage of percieved weaknesses in the current Match Engine) tactics that can be found on the Sports Interactive Community, they usually revolve around an aggressive style of tactic and all you'll need to do is get the right players to fit that style. I believe the diamond with wingers is one of those at the moment and two aggressive centre forwards. (interestingly your current base formation was an exploit two or three years ago).

Or you can keep trying on your own, and make tweaks as you go etc. I have a few games on the go and generally do a mixture. Currently got Luton into the Prem using a very similar tactic to yours.

In terms of your current tactic, your left hand side is very attacking, i'd either drop the the WB(S) to a D, or the Mez to an S. i'd also look at the fact you have no 'Pivot'. the BWM even on Defense is a roaming role, he'll leave his position to break up attacks, as will the BBM, and a Mez on attack will do what he likes.

Front 3 looks good, although i'm assuming they dont all consistently get good ratings, maybe 1 or 2 of them will game, I prefer my playmaker to be deeper than Lo Celso so i'd like change him to an AM S and get him to drift wide. i'd also put Kane on Attack or change to a Poacher or Adv Forward. Appreciate that goes against the SS role but it would also stretch the attack in theory. i'd recomend at least 2 attack roles in the front 3.
 
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I haven't played many of the recent, like you I preferred the simplicity of the earlier games as I just wanted a game I could jump in and out of rather than having to get too involved.

My last proper go at this was with FM13 or 14 (the year Southampton had Shaw/Clyne/Lallana) and I went through about 40 seasons turning Southampton into the biggest club in the world. This has reminded me that I saved over that game by accident though and all my hard work was lost forever.
 
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Orikoru

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I feel your pain. few things you can do, depends how you want to play the game really. If just want to win loads, get through a few seasons and have a bit of fun you can use some of the 'exploit' (they basically take advantage of percieved weaknesses in the current Match Engine) tactics that can be found on the Sports Interactive Community, they usually revolve around an aggressive style of tactic and all you'll need to do is get the right players to fit that style. I believe the diamond with wingers is one of those at the moment and two aggressive centre forwards. (interestingly your current base formation was an exploit two or three years ago).

Or you can keep trying on your own, and make tweaks as you go etc. I have a few games on the go and generally do a mixture. Currently got Luton into the Prem using a very similar tactic to yours.

In terms of your current tactic, your left hand side is very attacking, i'd either drop the the WB(S) to a D, or the Mez to an S. i'd also look at the fact you have no 'Pivot'. the BWM even on Defense is a roaming role, he'll leave his position to break up attacks, as will the BBM, and a Mez on attack will do what he likes.

Front 3 looks good, although i'm assuming they dont all consistently get good ratings, maybe 1 or 2 of them will game, I prefer my playmaker to be deeper than Lo Celso so i'd like change him to an AM S and get him to drift wide. i'd also put Kane on Attack or change to a Poacher or Adv Forward. Appreciate that goes against the SS role but it would also stretch the attack in theory. i'd recomend at least 2 attack roles in the front 3.
I don't want to just download a tactic someone else has made, as I'd feel like I'm not really playing the game. And let's face it, I shouldn't have to do that really. Creating your tactics is a major part of the game and it shouldn't be that difficult really.

I figured I'd need my full backs / wing backs at least on support because there's no width in the team otherwise, plus in real life it's very rare that a full back will ever just be a defensive role in this day and age.

Kane is a weird one, if he doesn't score he gets a rubbish rating, but he does score about 60% of the time because it's Kane and he's world class. His favourite role is deep-lying fwd but he didn't score much on that so I changed him to complete forward. The idea being that he plays Dele in as well. Maybe I should have had him on 'attack' though.

Regards to the midfield, I thought a trio of one D one S and one A would work well together, and the BB-S (Sissoko) should be tracking back to help the BWM-D (Dier) I'd have thought? And my understanding of the Mezzala was that it's kind of like another box-to-box but he just drifts out wide a bit more. A lot of tactics people seem to use don't have a DM so I thought Dier's role would have been ok. Thanks for the advice, I imagine that after we lose the Cup Final to Liverpool I'll be sacked and starting the save again from the beginning anyway so I'll try something different then. :LOL:


I haven't played many of the recent, like you I preferred the simplicity of the earlier games as I just wanted a game I could jump in and out of rather than having to get too involved.

My last proper go at this was with FM13 or 14 (the year Southampton had Shaw/Clyne/Lallana) and I went through about 40 seasons turning Southampton into the biggest club in the world. This has reminded me that I saved over that game by accident though and all my hard work was lost forever.
Yeah, I've disliked all the FMs I've had in the last ten years really, but as I say, boredom led me to buying it again. And I figured the Touch version was meant to be a little bit more pick-up-and-play, but it's still vastly more complicated than the full games of 15 years ago. My CM01/02 crashed and burned though so I had no choice. :(

That's funny, I'm pretty sure I had FM13 and also played as Southampton! They had a good up-and-coming side as you say. Those three, plus Gaston Ramirez was pretty good I recall. I remember I managed to sign Coutinho and Immobile who did quite well for me. I didn't play it long enough to win anything, had them in about 5th I think after a couple of seasons which wasn't bad.
 
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[QUOTE="

That's funny, I'm pretty sure I had FM13 and also played as Southampton! They had a good up-and-coming side as you say. Those three, plus Gaston Ramirez was pretty good I recall. I remember I managed to sign Coutinho and Immobile who did quite well for me. I didn't play it long enough to win anything, had them in about 5th I think after a couple of seasons which wasn't bad.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, I've disliked all the FMs I've had in the last ten years really, but as I say, boredom led me to buying it again. And I figured the Touch version was meant to be a little bit more pick-up-and-play, but it's still vastly more complicated than the full games of 15 years ago. My CM01/02 crashed and burned though so I had no choice. :(

That's funny, I'm pretty sure I had FM13 and also played as Southampton! They had a good up-and-coming side as you say. Those three, plus Gaston Ramirez was pretty good I recall. I remember I managed to sign Coutinho and Immobile who did quite well for me. I didn't play it long enough to win anything, had them in about 5th I think after a couple of seasons which wasn't bad.[/QUOTE]

They also had Dani Osvaldo upfront who banged in loads of goals, annoyingly if you started a new game later and the game had updated he was on loan at Juventus. This was the first time I had properly set up my scouts and over the years found a lot of awesome players who were very young and developed into world class players. My 2 favourites were Francois Chevalier, a CF who went on to break Shearers premier league scoring record and Lamine N'Guessuan, a CM who won the Ballon D'Or 5 6 seasons in a row.

This is making me want to dig out FM and have another go.
 
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I don't want to just download a tactic someone else has made, as I'd feel like I'm not really playing the game. And let's face it, I shouldn't have to do that really. Creating your tactics is a major part of the game and it shouldn't be that difficult really.

I figured I'd need my full backs / wing backs at least on support because there's no width in the team otherwise, plus in real life it's very rare that a full back will ever just be a defensive role in this day and age.

Kane is a weird one, if he doesn't score he gets a rubbish rating, but he does score about 60% of the time because it's Kane and he's world class. His favourite role is deep-lying fwd but he didn't score much on that so I changed him to complete forward. The idea being that he plays Dele in as well. Maybe I should have had him on 'attack' though.

Regards to the midfield, I thought a trio of one D one S and one A would work well together, and the BB-S (Sissoko) should be tracking back to help the BWM-D (Dier) I'd have thought? And my understanding of the Mezzala was that it's kind of like another box-to-box but he just drifts out wide a bit more. A lot of tactics people seem to use don't have a DM so I thought Dier's role would have been ok. Thanks for the advice, I imagine that after we lose the Cup Final to Liverpool I'll be sacked and starting the save again from the beginning anyway so I'll try something different then. :LOL:
The WB D will still provide with, just wont move into the final third until he has the ball... if you change your team tactic to 'Pass into Space' this may encourage him to get a bit further forward. Also with an attack duty you'll notice your WB will attack the box rather than stay wide, which i find infuriating as i quite like my WBs to stay wide. (its difficult to replicate the TTA role)

As for Kanes rating, thats just the rating system within the game. An attacker and Midfield will get good ratings through passes (completion) and shots/goals. As Kane is the tip of the spear he wont be getting that many touches so his only opportunity to improve rating will be goals. He wont get an improved rating on key movement or opening space for Alli etc.

The midfield 3 is good attacking wise, and has a good balance. Its just the defensive and turnover phase that might be a bit problematic with people out of position. ALso the other consideration is that as a Playmaker your team are instructed to 'look' for passes to Lo Celso therefore they may be bypassing your middle 3... I'm assuming Toby has a lot of passes, and the other CB a lot of missed?

As for Touch, once you get used to it you'll learn what you can skip, i dont do training or contract renewals, just set my staff to deal with that. its much better than the full version which can at times have 3 screens per day. which is frankly ridiculous.
 
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Orikoru

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The WB D will still provide with, just wont move into the final third until he has the ball... if you change your team tactic to 'Pass into Space' this may encourage him to get a bit further forward. Also with an attack duty you'll notice your WB will attack the box rather than stay wide, which i find infuriating as i quite like my WBs to stay wide. (its difficult to replicate the TTA role)

As for Kanes rating, thats just the rating system within the game. An attacker and Midfield will get good ratings through passes (completion) and shots/goals. As Kane is the tip of the spear he wont be getting that many touches so his only opportunity to improve rating will be goals. He wont get an improved rating on key movement or opening space for Alli etc.

The midfield 3 is good attacking wise, and has a good balance. Its just the defensive and turnover phase that might be a bit problematic with people out of position. ALso the other consideration is that as a Playmaker your team are instructed to 'look' for passes to Lo Celso therefore they may be bypassing your middle 3... I'm assuming Toby has a lot of passes, and the other CB a lot of missed?

As for Touch, once you get used to it you'll learn what you can skip, i dont do training or contract renewals, just set my staff to deal with that. its much better than the full version which can at times have 3 screens per day. which is frankly ridiculous.
Pass Into Space is just one of the many things on the tactics board that I have no idea if it'll be good or bad so I just leave it off. I definitely don't look at my centre backs passing stats, too involved for me. :LOL: I originally had both centre backs on ball-playing, because EVERY SINGLE ONE of my centre backs prefers that, but then I thought maybe having two BPDs was a Bad Thing and changed one of them to normal central defender. Basically just throwing :poop: at the wall and seeing what sticks though. I've got no idea how you really quantify what works best when you make small changes like that. In the good old days before player roles you'd just make a formation, and if it works you win, and if it didn't work, you don't win. I liked that.

If you hadn't guessed, I am 100% not doing training or youth team contract renewals etc etc. Forget that noise.

Can you get wingers to work? I started off with 4-2-3-1 or like a 4-3-3 because I have wingers like Son, Lucas, Bergwijn who I thought would be good, and they were all just terrible every game no matter what. Hence why I sacked them all off and went narrow so I could just use Lo Celso and Alli behind Kane. Since Lo Celso can't play wide at all, but is pretty much my best player other than Kane, so I had to make sure he was somewhere useful.
 

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I've had success with winger-based formations this year (on the full game, not a huge fan of Touch personally). I did a "Glory Hunter" where you have to try and win the League and Cup competitions of the 5 main leagues (England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France) + the two European comps and the Euros and World Cup. I won 4 titles in 4 countries in 4 seasons starting in season 2 as United, before moving to PSG, RB Leipzig and Real using a 4-2-3-1 Gegenpress style utilising a high press, high tempo, attacking style, was just running through teams but also surprisingly keeping a lot of clean sheets.

I tend to adjust based on the players at my disposal a little but ideal for my system was two BPD's on Defend, two wing backs on support, the CM's set to an AP or a Mezzala on support and a DLP on defend, one winger (typically on the right) and one Inverted Winger, the AMC as an Attacking Midfielder on support and then an Advanced Forward.

I found the Glory Hunter pretty easy, even as Leipzig we totally dominated the league so decided to mix it up and have taken on Leeds and just cannot get anything to work consistently. We'll play great one game and then lose to Millwall or Luton the next, it's frustrating as hell. I find with FM though you have to just stick with a tactic and a style so long as it's not inherently flawed and eventually it'll start to come good. A lot of your success will come once tactical familiarity has increased and then morale plays a huge part, the difference in a team when morale is high compared to low is mental. If you build up the tactical familiarity and then get on a run of wins your team will just take off and it's great when it finally clicks.

Oh and because I can't talk about FM without recommending him, please check out Ludwig Augustinsson. He's been my favourite player on the last 2 FMs. Can pick him up for £8-10m from Werder Bremen and he is the best LB I've used on the game by far. Will get a ton of assists, takes a mean free-kick, superb corner and long free-kick taker, superb defender, he's unreal. I signed him first season for United and he was in the world TOTY the two seasons I had him, took him to PSG and he made the team again, he's superb. If I ever need a wing-back in a top league he's always my go to.
 
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Pass Into Space is just one of the many things on the tactics board that I have no idea if it'll be good or bad so I just leave it off. I definitely don't look at my centre backs passing stats, too involved for me. :LOL: I originally had both centre backs on ball-playing, because EVERY SINGLE ONE of my centre backs prefers that, but then I thought maybe having two BPDs was a Bad Thing and changed one of them to normal central defender. Basically just throwing :poop: at the wall and seeing what sticks though. I've got no idea how you really quantify what works best when you make small changes like that. In the good old days before player roles you'd just make a formation, and if it works you win, and if it didn't work, you don't win. I liked that.

If you hadn't guessed, I am 100% not doing training or youth team contract renewals etc etc. Forget that noise.

Can you get wingers to work? I started off with 4-2-3-1 or like a 4-3-3 because I have wingers like Son, Lucas, Bergwijn who I thought would be good, and they were all just terrible every game no matter what. Hence why I sacked them all off and went narrow so I could just use Lo Celso and Alli behind Kane. Since Lo Celso can't play wide at all, but is pretty much my best player other than Kane, so I had to make sure he was somewhere useful.
its a whole new world now, and much more immersive, especially from a tactical stand point. There's a whole community dedicated to the game, and they all have varying ways of playing. Some like the challenges that Dan has mentioned above, others like to try and replicate systems/styles of favourite teams and managers. I've tried a couple of the challenges, but only play on Touch now so can only have 3 leagues loaded. Good thing with Touch is that tactic familiarity isnt a thing (i think), so you can play around much quicker with a tactic and in theory it'll work.

You have the preset tactical style, gegenpressing, tiki taka, counter etc, things like pass into space, play through middle, run with ball or just ways of tweaking your style.

if you set the pass into space, then your creative players will play balls ahead of the player they are passing too, whereas without it will typically be ball to feet. this is all then obviously countered by what the players indivudal preference is. So you can select run less with ball, but i imagine Lucas is going to ignore that and run with the ball.

As for wingers, i've had mixed results, i've got them to work with no Full backs and a 3 5 2 formation, and i've had medium success on a previous game with newcastle as a 451 and the main threat being ASM, and Almiron as inverted, this meant Joelinton did the job he does now, and was just to mark players out of the game.
 
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Orikoru

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I've had success with winger-based formations this year (on the full game, not a huge fan of Touch personally). I did a "Glory Hunter" where you have to try and win the League and Cup competitions of the 5 main leagues (England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France) + the two European comps and the Euros and World Cup. I won 4 titles in 4 countries in 4 seasons starting in season 2 as United, before moving to PSG, RB Leipzig and Real using a 4-2-3-1 Gegenpress style utilising a high press, high tempo, attacking style, was just running through teams but also surprisingly keeping a lot of clean sheets.

I tend to adjust based on the players at my disposal a little but ideal for my system was two BPD's on Defend, two wing backs on support, the CM's set to an AP or a Mezzala on support and a DLP on defend, one winger (typically on the right) and one Inverted Winger, the AMC as an Attacking Midfielder on support and then an Advanced Forward.

I found the Glory Hunter pretty easy, even as Leipzig we totally dominated the league so decided to mix it up and have taken on Leeds and just cannot get anything to work consistently. We'll play great one game and then lose to Millwall or Luton the next, it's frustrating as hell. I find with FM though you have to just stick with a tactic and a style so long as it's not inherently flawed and eventually it'll start to come good. A lot of your success will come once tactical familiarity has increased and then morale plays a huge part, the difference in a team when morale is high compared to low is mental. If you build up the tactical familiarity and then get on a run of wins your team will just take off and it's great when it finally clicks.

Oh and because I can't talk about FM without recommending him, please check out Ludwig Augustinsson. He's been my favourite player on the last 2 FMs. Can pick him up for £8-10m from Werder Bremen and he is the best LB I've used on the game by far. Will get a ton of assists, takes a mean free-kick, superb corner and long free-kick taker, superb defender, he's unreal. I signed him first season for United and he was in the world TOTY the two seasons I had him, took him to PSG and he made the team again, he's superb. If I ever need a wing-back in a top league he's always my go to.
So what you're saying is.. you can only get consistency if you're using the best team in the league? :LOL: I jest, but it does feel like that! I've also tried to just use roles that my players prefer in most cases, but it's hit and miss whether it works or not. I started off using a direct style, but my board want us to play possession so I switched that. I found we didn't get enough goals so I recently started trying Vertical Tiki Taka. All are just as hit and miss as each other.

I desperately needed a full back at the beginning as Spurs but as I didn't know what I was doing really I just bought De Sciglio as he was available and just in budget. Spurs don't give you any money though, that entire budget was 15 million. :confused:


its a whole new world now, and much more immersive, especially from a tactical stand point. There's a whole community dedicated to the game, and they all have varying ways of playing. Some like the challenges that Dan has mentioned above, others like to try and replicate systems/styles of favourite teams and managers. I've tried a couple of the challenges, but only play on Touch now so can only have 3 leagues loaded. Good thing with Touch is that tactic familiarity isnt a thing (i think), so you can play around much quicker with a tactic and in theory it'll work.

You have the preset tactical style, gegenpressing, tiki taka, counter etc, things like pass into space, play through middle, run with ball or just ways of tweaking your style.

if you set the pass into space, then your creative players will play balls ahead of the player they are passing too, whereas without it will typically be ball to feet. this is all then obviously countered by what the players indivudal preference is. So you can select run less with ball, but i imagine Lucas is going to ignore that and run with the ball.

As for wingers, i've had mixed results, i've got them to work with no Full backs and a 3 5 2 formation, and i've had medium success on a previous game with newcastle as a 451 and the main threat being ASM, and Almiron as inverted, this meant Joelinton did the job he does now, and was just to mark players out of the game.
Yeah the full game is not for me in a million years. Even Touch is quite in-depth for me.
 
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Orikoru

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A game so bad it has it's own thread :LOL:
Get yourself COD Warzone and I'll show you how to lose in so many different ways, my current favourite is falling down the ladder in the fire station tower :eek:
:ROFLMAO: I used to be alright at Medal of Honour back in the day but not now. Been spending a pretty penny on games, already bought Gran Turismo Sport on PS4 as something the missus can play with me, and thinking about getting Battlegrounds 3 for the same reason while it's only £25.
 

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I played the touch version until corona virus kicked in. Now have full version as work is so quiet I’m on it most day’s.

I’ve learned that more pragmatic styles are needed. You need at least one forward set to pressing to set the tone. I’ve got a 442 version that most of my players aren’t actually naturals in their positions, but the roles compliment one another.

Season 7 Already atm. Can do a season every few shifts as I’m less than involved in press relations lol. As with every version. It takes a few years to get Saints secure. Spent first 3 years 13th and below. Then all the cheap youngsters I’d bought start to come through.

Top 4 for last 3 years. 2nd to Arsenal of all teams last year by goal difference. Transfer money seems a little silly. 1st year in CL I spent £80m on Donnarumma. Then got HaAlan’s for £102m the next season. No way our board would spend that!!
 
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Orikoru

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I played the touch version until corona virus kicked in. Now have full version as work is so quiet I’m on it most day’s.

I’ve learned that more pragmatic styles are needed. You need at least one forward set to pressing to set the tone. I’ve got a 442 version that most of my players aren’t actually naturals in their positions, but the roles compliment one another.

Season 7 Already atm. Can do a season every few shifts as I’m less than involved in press relations lol. As with every version. It takes a few years to get Saints secure. Spent first 3 years 13th and below. Then all the cheap youngsters I’d bought start to come through.

Top 4 for last 3 years. 2nd to Arsenal of all teams last year by goal difference. Transfer money seems a little silly. 1st year in CL I spent £80m on Donnarumma. Then got HaAlan’s for £102m the next season. No way our board would spend that!!
That's a bit depressing. I had a look online for recommended formations and a few had 'pressing forwards' involved. I never would have considered using that role. What sort of management game is it if you can only make your team into Burnley to succeed?? Was the chief designer Sam Allardyce? :LOL:
 

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You can get any system to work if you train the players properly, have the right players in the right roles and instructions that compliment that style. I had a mental 3-ATB system last year that I used to get AlbinoLeffe from Serie C to Champions League that had an inverted wing-back, a libero, wing-backs and wingers. Found the right players to fit the roles, got lucky with a couple of insane regens and after a bit of a struggle in season 1 we flew through the leagues after that. Persistence, analysing how your team performs in the engine and then fixing any gaps, finding the right players to do the job you want them to and building up tactical familiarity and you're sorted, can be very frustrating when it's not going to plan though.
 

Papas1982

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That's a bit depressing. I had a look online for recommended formations and a few had 'pressing forwards' involved. I never would have considered using that role. What sort of management game is it if you can only make your team into Burnley to succeed?? Was the chief designer Sam Allardyce? :LOL:
I dunno. I don't think the pressing forward is expected to simply be a pita.

In the past I'd have considered the role for someone like Shane long. Work hard but don't score. Nowadays most teams want their strikers to still put the work in. Aguero runs a lot more than when Pep first took over.
 

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Pressing forwards are good, I've used them in a few different tactics. Don't really have a forward capable at Leeds, although might try and train Bamford up to become a PF. Think of Firmino's role at Liverpool or Vardy's role for Leicester, a lot of their work is done off the ball, trying to win it back for their team, putting the defence under pressure and then bringing their team-mates into the game. Can be pretty useful in a gegenpress style, which for me, is the most overpowered preset tactic type on this years game and the only type of style where I've been able to consistently beat teams like Liverpool and Manchester City.
 
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