Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

Ethan

Money List Winner
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
8,852
Location
Bearwood Lakes, Berks
Indeed - I thought the point (and what I believe we were led to believe by the government) was to employ 18,000 individuals will skills and experience - preferably in something medical/clinical or with background delivering difficult news and supporting those contacted. That's why my Mrs applied (a retired BC clinical nurse specialist). But she wasn't asked for any form of interview, not required. Instead it seems that the majority employed are frankly no more than call centre agents reading from a script - with no real understanding of the virus - or the skills on delivering difficult news that can persuade those contacted of the importance of what they are being asked to provide.
This is the new world of employment. Minimising costs means low wages, little training and slavishly following the algorithm.
 

Ethan

Money List Winner
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
8,852
Location
Bearwood Lakes, Berks
I don't think so. It was Chris Whittey who said (at the PMs press conference last week) that the government had reached the “outer limit” of how far the lockdown could be eased. “The idea we can reopen everything and keep the virus under control is clearly wrong,”

I suppose there is ambiguity in that as schools are open (or they were). But I think the implication is that - yes - open schools - but if we do so then we'll have to close down something we have recently re-opened or we risk going over the tipping point.
Whitty was saying that this is on the edge of getting out of control again and not to blame him when it does.
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
23,396
This is the new world of employment. Minimising costs means low wages, little training and slavishly following the algorithm.
Indeed - when we looked on the NHS Professionals website we found that there were in fact two roles - one at £20/hr for the tracer role and curiously another that we weren't aware of for call handlers paid a rate of half that. We thought that the 18,000 were all to be the former. My understanding is that there are in fact about 7,000 of the former (skilled nurses/clinicians/practitioners etc) and 20,000 of the latter.

How does this relate to how did if affect me? Well - my Mrs didn't get a job :)
 

MetalMickie

Tour Winner
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
5,210
Location
Four miles too far!
Indeed - I thought the point (and what I believe we were led to believe by the government) was to employ 18,000 individuals will skills and experience - preferably in something medical/clinical or with background delivering difficult news and supporting those contacted. That's why my Mrs applied (a retired BC clinical nurse specialist). But she wasn't asked for any form of interview, not required. Instead it seems that the majority employed are frankly no more than call centre agents reading from a script - with no real understanding of the virus - or the skills on delivering difficult news that can persuade those contacted of the importance of what they are being asked to do and to provide.

And what are the numbers? 218,000 contacts made over 8 weeks by 27,000 tracers. Now that's almost exactly one contact a week for each tracer. And we don't know whether a 'contact' is a phone call made - or actually someone spoken to - and whether the contacts are individuals or could include multiple calls to the same individual trying to get through. Who knows. But it is not great - no matter how much it is 'bigged' up.
Why would the system need anything other than a call centre approach?

And who was led to believe that nursing professionals were to be employed?

Who are all these professionals with an "understanding of the virus"? After all we have been told often enough that this is a new and evolving illness and has puzzled many of the experts.
 

Ethan

Money List Winner
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
8,852
Location
Bearwood Lakes, Berks
Why would the system need anything other than a call centre approach?

And who was led to believe that nursing professionals were to be employed?

Who are all these professionals with an "understanding of the virus"? After all we have been told often enough that this is a new and evolving illness and has puzzled many of the experts.
Because people don't respond well to call centre algorithm and scripted anonymous people, obviously, and it is possible to find people at ground level you can't reach on the phone.

There is plenty of understanding of how contact tracing works and how transmission happens in populations. You don't have to sequence the virus's genome to do it effectively. Other countries have done it the old fashioned way and done it much better than the UK.

And of the people traced during the first few weeks of the NHS Track and Trace system, more than 80% were traced by local PHE staff at barely no extra cost to normal. The Track and Trace system is massively expensive and not worth a fraction of it.
 

MetalMickie

Tour Winner
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
5,210
Location
Four miles too far!
Because people don't respond well to call centre algorithm and scripted anonymous people, obviously, and it is possible to find people at ground level you can't reach on the phone.

There is plenty of understanding of how contact tracing works and how transmission happens in populations. You don't have to sequence the virus's genome to do it effectively. Other countries have done it the old fashioned way and done it much better than the UK.

And of the people traced during the first few weeks of the NHS Track and Trace system, more than 80% were traced by local PHE staff at barely no extra cost to normal. The Track and Trace system is massively expensive and not worth a fraction of it.
So did we need to recruit additional staff and, if so, do those recruited need specific medical skills as appears to be suggested by SilH?
 

chellie

Tour Winner
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
3,528
So did we need to recruit additional staff and, if so, do those recruited need specific medical skills as appears to be suggested by SilH?
I think they were recruited as it was expected that loads would be needed. Sital is the call centre company. Think I might have posted the link for SiLHs son.
 

Ethan

Money List Winner
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
8,852
Location
Bearwood Lakes, Berks
So did we need to recruit additional staff and, if so, do those recruited need specific medical skills as appears to be suggested by SilH?
We needed to allow existing tracing staff to do their jobs with modest increases in staff but mostly short term additional support drafted in from other locals in the NHS and community temporarily not doing their usual daytime job. The specific medical skills needed are not virology but public health and communications skills. A retired nurse may be ideal.
 

MetalMickie

Tour Winner
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
5,210
Location
Four miles too far!
We needed to allow existing tracing staff to do their jobs with modest increases in staff but mostly short term additional support drafted in from other locals in the NHS and community temporarily not doing their usual daytime job. The specific medical skills needed are not virology but public health and communications skills. A retired nurse may be ideal.
Your last point is definitely one of experience as I am afraid that throughout my life and contact as a patient and a patient's relative the one skill that I have consistently found missing from many in the nursing profession is the ability to communicate.

Perhaps I have been singularly unfortunate.
 

HomerJSimpson

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
66,316
Location
Bracknell - Berkshire
Your last point is definitely one of experience as I am afraid that throughout my life and contact as a patient and a patient's relative the one skill that I have consistently found missing from many in the nursing profession is the ability to communicate.

Perhaps I have been singularly unfortunate.
Communication is a skill and like any other some are better than other and although it should improve with experience sadly that isn't always the case
 

Doon frae Troon

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
16,762
Location
S W Scotland
Update from No 10.

When I said Covid19 will be all over by Christmas I did not state which year.

When I said everyone in England would be only 30 minutes away from their nearest Covid Test Centre I assumed that everyone could afford to hire a helicopter.
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
23,396
I didn’t realise until this evening that management of the test and trace programmes of Scotland, NI and Wales have effectively been kept ‘in-house’ In their respective NHS organisations, whilst that of England has been contracted out - to Serco.

But going back to when Recruitment for test and trace was launched, I am sure the implication was that 18,000 skilled communicators or with relevant other experience (or something like that) would be employed. I don’t think I expected 75% of the workforce to be call centre agents working off a script - and we now hear only making one contact a week over the last 8 weeks - some only making one over longer than a week. Anyway - it’s what it is...
 
Last edited:

Doon frae Troon

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
16,762
Location
S W Scotland
First visit to a supermarket for me since early March.

Quite impressed with the set up.
One way system on the entry doors, sanitisor with the basket handles, fairly quiet with all but one teenager wearing masks.
All socially distancing.
SS checkouts all protected.
Felt quite safe.
 

Ethan

Money List Winner
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
8,852
Location
Bearwood Lakes, Berks
I was working in Preston all of last week, I'm a smidge worried now 😲
You probably shouldn't be. The risk of getting it is made up of two things, the amount in the local area, prevalence, and then the risk that someone with it gives it to you. Even then, you could turn out to be an asymptomatic carrier and know nothing about it until you get a positive antibody test in a couple of months. The virus is definitely around, especially in higher risk places like Preston, but that doesn't mean it is common. It is probably less than 1% in most parts of the town, way less in some. And if you practice social distancing, as far as you can, wear masks in shops etc, the chance of a case transmitting it to you is also not high.

Don't be worried, be careful.
 
Top