Club comps

clubchamp98

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That is how it works, you declare what tee you want to use in the pro shop in advance and the pro fills in the card.

I like the idea. Golf is all about fun, some get that playing off the longest tees, some get that playing off something shorter and this allows them all to enjoy the course how they want. Personally would like to see the red tees added to that then you really could have an inclusive comp with everyone playing a course they enjoy. I know a few women who would love the challenge of playing off the white tees, more who would like a go off the yellows and a few men who would prefer to use the red tees as they just do not have the distance needed. For me, yellow tees are perfect as I am not a long hitter but also not too short and so I get most enjoyment from there. That said, I normally play the tee that the rest of my group is using for ease
Well you will get your chance next year when the WHS comes in to play.
Using the slope system you can play whatever tee you want.
Your score is adjusted off the tee you play.
So in theory all tees can be used in the same comp as in the USA.
So even in a fourball you could all play off different tees according to your ability.
 

GB72

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Well you will get your chance next year when the WHS comes in to play.
Using the slope system you can play whatever tee you want.
Your score is adjusted off the tee you play.
So in theory all tees can be used in the same comp as in the USA.
So even in a fourball you could all play off different tees according to your ability.
Sounds good to me. Really should read up on that a bit more.

My only concern is that a 4 ball playing of a number of different tees could result in slower rounds but I guess if it works in the US it should work here.
 

Traminator

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My only concern is that a 4 ball playing of a number of different tees could result in slower rounds but I guess if it works in the US it should work here.
In reality it would speed things up if the stigma about everyone playing off the same tees disappears.
When a man plays with a woman (normally folks) , he plays whites/yellows and she plays reds, that's just accepted as normal.

But why isn't it normal that male players in a fourball play off different tees to suit their ability?
Eventually I persuaded a couple of old guys I play with to go off the yellows when I'm off the whites, after a couple of holes the light bulbs went on (hello 💡 🙂) and we never looked back.
"Why didn't we do this before?"

"Grrr because you wouldn't listen" 😅
 

clubchamp98

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Sounds good to me. Really should read up on that a bit more.

My only concern is that a 4 ball playing of a number of different tees could result in slower rounds but I guess if it works in the US it should work here.
You are right it does slow things down imo.
But as most use buggies over there it’s possible to make time up.
I play with two scratch players and one off 2 they always play the back tees but that’s to long for me so I just play nearest tee to 6500 yds that’s good for me.
Playing a course that is to long is not enjoyable and becomes a slog.
 

clubchamp98

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In reality it would speed things up if the stigma about everyone playing off the same tees disappears.
When a man plays with a woman (normally folks) , he plays whites/yellows and she plays reds, that's just accepted as normal.

But why isn't it normal that male players in a fourball play off different tees to suit their ability?
Eventually I persuaded a couple of old guys I play with to go off the yellows when I'm off the whites, after a couple of holes the light bulbs went on (hello 💡 🙂) and we never looked back.
"Why didn't we do this before?"

"Grrr because you wouldn't listen" 😅
We have a series of blue tees now for juniors and seniors to use if they want to.
But only whites for the comps ,which is to long for some .
But next year that will all change.
 

jim8flog

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What I don’t understand is why there are gender specific tees when there is a handicap system.
I also don’t understand why the handicaps start at 28 when the reality is a novice is playing a good round at +36.
But I suppose with etiquette, social separation and the chance to play sport and dress smartly there are some things one has to endure. Roll on winter when I can get a tee time at Any time I want.
Courses are rated by a team from the local golf union to arrive at a Standard Scratch Score, the method of working it out is different for lady to that of a man. It is extremely rare to find the red tees rated for both sexes and similarly the whites. There will be some courses that have ratings for both sexes for the Yellows but it is very rare.

When the World Handicap system comes in in November there may be a few more that rate the yellows for both.

Handicaps start at 54 and not 28
 

rulefan

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Courses are rated by a team from the local golf union to arrive at a Standard Scratch Score, the method of working it out is different for lady to that of a man. It is extremely rare to find the red tees rated for both sexes and similarly the whites. There will be some courses that have ratings for both sexes for the Yellows but it is very rare.

When the World Handicap system comes in in November there may be a few more that rate the yellows for both.

Handicaps start at 54 and not 28
In fact there are a fair number of courses where either or both of the red and yellow tees have been rated for both genders. But rather surprisingly (to me at least) fewer than expected. Our County rating manager, who took over from me when I retired, said he expects a number of clubs will ask for ratings for the 'alternate' gender when WHS beds down.

Incidentally the 'method' is exactly the same. It's just the numeric values that differ. But I suspect that is what you meant. ;)
 

jim8flog

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In fact there are a fair number of courses where either or both of the red and yellow tees have been rated for both genders. But rather surprisingly (to me at least) fewer than expected. Our County rating manager, who took over from me when I retired, said he expects a number of clubs will ask for ratings for the 'alternate' gender when WHS beds down.

Incidentally the 'method' is exactly the same. It's just the numeric values that differ. But I suspect that is what you meant. ;)
Correct to the latter comment.

Sadly I was not involved with the course rating and the new manager. The previous manager and I had discussed a few things to alter when we had our course remeasured eg where our fixed distance markers are placed on some holes but none of it was done. One of the things I would have strongly suggested was course ratings for both sexes on yellows and reds so we can run mixed comps on a single tee easily and young male juniors and elderly seniors can play off the reds if they wished.
 

clubchamp98

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Correct to the latter comment.

Sadly I was not involved with the course rating and the new manager. The previous manager and I had discussed a few things to alter when we had our course remeasured eg where our fixed distance markers are placed on some holes but none of it was done. One of the things I would have strongly suggested was course ratings for both sexes on yellows and reds so we can run mixed comps on a single tee easily and young male juniors and elderly seniors can play off the reds if they wished.
We suggested this so mixed comps could be off the same tees,but got a firm NO off the ladies .
“we don’t want a longer course and we don’t want men hacking up our tees” was their response.
So people who think it’s the men holding back the women ,it’s not true all the time.
But must happen in a few clubs I know.
 

saving_par

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We suggested this so mixed comps could be off the same tees,but got a firm NO off the ladies .
“we don’t want a longer course and we don’t want men hacking up our tees” was their response.
So people who think it’s the men holding back the women ,it’s not true all the time.
But must happen in a few clubs I know.
Just another of the various cliques every club has unfortunately.
 

jim8flog

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We suggested this so mixed comps could be off the same tees,but got a firm NO off the ladies .
“we don’t want a longer course and we don’t want men hacking up our tees” was their response.
So people who think it’s the men holding back the women ,it’s not true all the time.
But must happen in a few clubs I know.

We changed our club rules last year so that a player may choose which tee they play from. We have a couple of top class girl players who play in the men's swindles which are sometimes of the whites, must be a little bit tough for them because their handicaps are based upon the reds. One of them had already asked if she could play off the whites before we changed the rules.

I think there a few of the men who are now glad she can play off the whites as they now stand a chance against her.
 

Kaz

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We suggested this so mixed comps could be off the same tees,but got a firm NO off the ladies .
“we don’t want a longer course and we don’t want men hacking up our tees” was their response.
So people who think it’s the men holding back the women ,it’s not true all the time.
But must happen in a few clubs I know.
OK, you are very one-sided in your takes on this issue so here's a few things to consider.

Firstly, there is not a single reason for mixed comps to be played from the same tees. SSS and handicapping takes care of all that, when applied correctly.

"Don't want to play a longer course" - Many women hit the ball very short distances. There is a massive range between long and short hitters. It is not unusual for me to hit a pitching wedge on a par 3 while my PP hits driver. Statistically, based on average driving distances women already play courses that are proportionately longer than men play. There's actually a decent argument for making the courses shorter. (Not my preference but there it is.) Many struggle with the length of the courses - many women already can't reach many greens in regulation. There's no reason to make it even harder for those players and of course they're not keen on that.

"Don't want men hacking up our tees" - generally speaking the red tees at courses are smaller, uneven and poorly maintained compared with the men's. All our play is from these same tees - casual and competition - so you better believe we don't want them having more traffic than they can sustain. Personally I am a huge advocate of rating all tees for both genders but many clubs (mine included) will need to spend £££s to bring the red tees up to a level to support that.

Finally, " the women" are not a homogeneous group. We have the same range of opinions and debate about any issue as "the men".
 

clubchamp98

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OK, you are very one-sided in your takes on this issue so here's a few things to consider.

Firstly, there is not a single reason for mixed comps to be played from the same tees. SSS and handicapping takes care of all that, when applied correctly.

"Don't want to play a longer course" - Many women hit the ball very short distances. There is a massive range between long and short hitters. It is not unusual for me to hit a pitching wedge on a par 3 while my PP hits driver. Statistically, based on average driving distances women already play courses that are proportionately longer than men play. There's actually a decent argument for making the courses shorter. (Not my preference but there it is.) Many struggle with the length of the courses - many women already can't reach many greens in regulation. There's no reason to make it even harder for those players and of course they're not keen on that.

"Don't want men hacking up our tees" - generally speaking the red tees at courses are smaller, uneven and poorly maintained compared with the men's. All our play is from these same tees - casual and competition - so you better believe we don't want them having more traffic than they can sustain. Personally I am a huge advocate of rating all tees for both genders but many clubs (mine included) will need to spend £££s to bring the red tees up to a level to support that.

Finally, " the women" are not a homogeneous group. We have the same range of opinions and debate about any issue as "the men".
I am just stating the facts , that was the reply we got.
I am all for mixed golf .
But some of the older men are shorter than some women but are still playing off the whites.
It was suggested so the tees could be for everyone , but the women don’t want them on their tees .
So we built some blue tees for juniors and seniors to play from.
We have one girl who plays for the county who regularly plays off the whites, but if the men had the same attitude as the women she would only have the red tees to play off.
If I had my way it would be just members and you could play off any tee you want . Like in the USA.
All our red tees are the same standard as the whites and rightly so the ladies pay the same as us and should expect the same quality.
 

Kaz

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I am just stating the facts , that was the reply we got.
I am all for mixed golf .
But some of the older men are shorter than some women but are still playing off the whites.
It was suggested so the tees could be for everyone , but the women don’t want them on their tees .
So we built some blue tees for juniors and seniors to play from.
We have one girl who plays for the county who regularly plays off the whites, but if the men had the same attitude as the women she would only have the red tees to play off.
If I had my way it would be just members and you could play off any tee you want . Like in the USA.
And I agree with much of that but what I would like you to do is take a step back and try to actually see it from "the women's" point of view. I gave you lots of good reasons why you might have got the response you did and that those responses would probably have been the subject of much debate among "the women".

Please stop framing it through your personal bias of "the women" being obstructive.
 

clubchamp98

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And I agree with much of that but what I would like you to do is take a step back and try to actually see it from "the women's" point of view. I gave you lots of good reasons why you might have got the response you did and that those responses would probably have been the subject of much debate among "the women".

Please stop framing it through your personal bias of "the women" being obstructive.
Ok sometimes written down it looks black and white my apologies.
IMHO it wasn’t a golf thing more a social decision.
I play a lot of golf with wives and friends and this is what they told me.
They just don’t want to play with the men.
I know the feeling is the same with lots of the men members.
This creates a them and us thing which is sad really.
The ladies section has exploded recently with taster sessions and no joining fee for ladies we got 17 new members.

we were doing a revamp of the tees and were going to put five tees on every box.
So players use whatever they are comfortable with. Expecting the slope system to be introduced next year .
Comp tees Men
Social tees
Junior tees
Seniors tees.
Ladies tees.
But it didn’t happen.
We spent the money on the bunkers at least we all use them.
 

Kaz

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Ok sometimes written down it looks black and white my apologies.
IMHO it wasn’t a golf thing more a social decision.
I play a lot of golf with wives and friends and this is what they told me.
They just don’t want to play with the men.
I know the feeling is the same with lots of the men members.
This creates a them and us thing which is sad really.
The ladies section has exploded recently with taster sessions and no joining fee for ladies we got 17 new members.

we were doing a revamp of the tees and were going to put five tees on every box.
So players use whatever they are comfortable with. Expecting the slope system to be introduced next year .
Comp tees Men
Social tees
Junior tees
Seniors tees.
Ladies tees.
But it didn’t happen.
We spent the money on the bunkers at least we all use them.
Believe me, the politics within a women's section can drive me crackers at times but, if nothing else, I think it's important to realise that women are people too and have as much range of diverse opinions as men likely do. I know some women don't like playing with men and vice versa and there's nothing wrong with that per se. But when you get situations where (for example) women can't get on the course because it's booked all day for men that's a problem that needs looked at... Incidentally, mixed comps is by no means the only solution to that.

Obviously I know nothing at all about your club but I wonder if you have realised the issue I immediately noticed with your clubs tee plan? Why not women's comp tees? Why categorise them as you did instead of just having different distances, rated for both genders and freedom to play whichever set you like? Instead, it looks like the proposal is for four sets of tees for men and one for women. Hmmm.. wonder why the women aren't enthused by that idea? Could be wrong but it suggests to me the tee plan was put together without much consultation - easier to take people on the journey of you get them on board early.
 

clubchamp98

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Believe me, the politics within a women's section can drive me crackers at times but, if nothing else, I think it's important to realise that women are people too and have as much range of diverse opinions as men likely do. I know some women don't like playing with men and vice versa and there's nothing wrong with that per se. But when you get situations where (for example) women can't get on the course because it's booked all day for men that's a problem that needs looked at... Incidentally, mixed comps is by no means the only solution to that.

Obviously I know nothing at all about your club but I wonder if you have realised the issue I immediately noticed with your clubs tee plan? Why not women's comp tees? Why categorise them as you did instead of just having different distances, rated for both genders and freedom to play whichever set you like? Instead, it looks like the proposal is for four sets of tees for men and one for women. Hmmm.. wonder why the women aren't enthused by that idea? Could be wrong but it suggests to me the tee plan was put together without much consultation - easier to take people on the journey of you get them on board early.
Post 134 clearly says the tees would be for everyone!
But it didn’t happen.
The plan was for everyone ,I missed out this is what we have now sorry.

But we wanted
Black
White
Yellow
Blue
Red.
The ladies tees are the comp tees they don’t play off any other tees even in winter .
The men’s tees move in winter.
The tees for juniors and seniors are forward of the ladies and can be used by anybody.
 
Last edited:

Kaz

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Post 134 clearly says the tees would be for everyone!
But it didn’t happen.
The plan was for everyone I missed out this is what we have now sorry.
Black
White
Yellow
Blue
Red.
The ladies tees are the comp tees they don’t play off any other tees even in winter .
The men’s tees move in winter.
The tees are what we have now as the ladies wanted to keep the red tee.
So all casual and comp play for the women is from the same set of tees that aren't protected over the winter and you're surprised they don't want even more wear and tear on them during the golf season?

Now I obviously don't know your course but at many courses, including mine, the red tees are pretty crap in comparison to the white/yellows so I'm going to say there's a fair chance that applies at your place too. Factor that into the equation.

I really think you should try and see it from their perspective rather than castigating them.

Look, sorry, I don't want to come across as picking on you but the "we wanted to do x but the women vetoed it" is such a common golf club trope and it never seems to consider that maybe "the women" have good reasons and maybe by involving them more better decisions could be made and agreed upon. And, as you probably appreciate, I'm projecting what you describe onto different but similar situations at clubs where I've been a member.
 

rulefan

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"Don't want men hacking up our tees" - generally speaking the red tees at courses are smaller, uneven and poorly maintained compared with the men's. All our play is from these same tees - casual and competition - so you better believe we don't want them having more traffic than they can sustain.
Unfortunately a very common situation. Tee size is a legitimate complaint. Our ladies resisted dual rating for that reason even though slightly shorter green tees had been built and rated for them. The other problem was that all the ladies' committee are low handicap players and made it clear that their playing the green course was 'infra dig'. The rest of the ladies were never consulted.
 
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