Boris the PM - a new beginning

SocketRocket

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All this 'Boris is a liar' 'Boris is a charlitain' talk is getting boring and really plays the game the users readily accuse others of doing by deflecting the issue away from current politics. It's like kids in a school yard. There are some on this forum who appear to suffer from an acute form of Boris/Tory paranoia to a level they seem deficient of any balance in their views. I have been critical of Corbyn's politics but I've not used his personal life as a lever to attack him. What's even worse is that much of it suggests that the general public are so stupid they dont understand what they're voting for anymore.
 

pauldj42

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Whilst I think that is a great post, I also think we are very much are about personality politics in this country now. I just couldn't see either party put in charge someone like John Smith, or William Hague these days - their images don't work for a big PR campaign.

In terms of recent history though; May was a poor PM, but her general election was an utter disaster. Johnson was up against the exact same leader of the opposition, and blew him away.

What I find odd about the Johnson popularity is the fact that he is a proven liar, but no one seems to care too much about it. If you had a guy like that working for you, you would try and get rid of them asap.
Johnson got just over 300,000 more voted than TM, he didn’t blow Corbyn away, Corbyn lost over 2.5 million votes, were did those votes go, they certainly didn’t go to Boris, the voter in the middle could no more vote for boris than they could Corbyn and that’s were the 80 seat majority comes from.

He’s a proven known liar and that will never change, all he cares about is himself.
 

Hobbit

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Whilst I think that is a great post, I also think we are very much are about personality politics in this country now. I just couldn't see either party put in charge someone like John Smith, or William Hague these days - their images don't work for a big PR campaign.

In terms of recent history though; May was a poor PM, but her general election was an utter disaster. Johnson was up against the exact same leader of the opposition, and blew him away.

What I find odd about the Johnson popularity is the fact that he is a proven liar, but no one seems to care too much about it. If you had a guy like that working for you, you would try and get rid of them asap.
In the main, Johnson won, or Corbyn lost, on the Brexit issue. There were periphery issues, like antisemitism and Labour's unbelievable spending promises but the election was, to a large extent, a second Brexit referendum.
 
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All this 'Boris is a liar' 'Boris is a charlitain' talk is getting boring and really plays the game the users readily accuse others of doing by deflecting the issue away from current politics. It's like kids in a school yard. There are some on this forum who appear to suffer from an acute form of Boris/Tory paranoia to a level they seem deficient of any balance in their views. I have been critical of Corbyn's politics but I've not used his personal life as a lever to attack him. What's even worse is that much of it suggests that the general public are so stupid they dont understand what they're voting for anymore.
That some might find it boring does not make it less true and less relevant to every word that he utters today. It is not the politics of the school yard - it is calling truth to power - and calling out when those in power speak to deceive - and that is as necessary today - if not more necessary - in the crisis of today. Those getting 'bored' might be OK with choosing to forget the past - but I, for one, am not OK.

And as far as suggesting that somehow those who criticise Johnson are much the same group as those who call the public stupid - I don't think so...in fact it is simply not so (see criticisms and accusations of stupidity levelled at those breaching lockdown guidelines and we will find that they are not just those critical of Johnson).

Even today Johnson can't find room in his speech to admit failings on his and his government's part. Instead it is all praise for how great we've all done...For goodness sake - look at the death toll - try and understand and just admit where you got it wrong.
 

drdel

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That some might find it boring does not make it less true and less relevant to every word that he utters today. It is not the politics of the school yard - it is calling truth to power - and calling out when those in power speak to deceive - and that is as necessary today - if not more necessary - in the crisis of today. Those getting 'bored' might be OK with choosing to forget the past - but I, for one, am not OK.

And as far as suggesting that somehow those who criticise Johnson are much the same group as those who call the public stupid - I don't think so...in fact it is simply not so (see criticisms and accusations of stupidity levelled at those breaching lockdown guidelines and we will find that they are not just those critical of Johnson).

Even today Johnson can't find room in his speech to admit failings on his and his government's part. Instead it is all praise for how great we've all done...For goodness sake - look at the death toll - try and understand and just admit where you got it wrong.
I guess if you want to talk about the truth you ought to listen openly rather than selectively.

There were several statements in his speech were he apologised for some of the stuff that was wrong and stated lessons would be learnt.
 

SocketRocket

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That some might find it boring does not make it less true and less relevant to every word that he utters today. It is not the politics of the school yard - it is calling truth to power - and calling out when those in power speak to deceive - and that is as necessary today - if not more necessary - in the crisis of today. Those getting 'bored' might be OK with choosing to forget the past - but I, for one, am not OK.

And as far as suggesting that somehow those who criticise Johnson are much the same group as those who call the public stupid - I don't think so...in fact it is simply not so (see criticisms and accusations of stupidity levelled at those breaching lockdown guidelines and we will find that they are not just those critical of Johnson).

Even today Johnson can't find room in his speech to admit failings on his and his government's part. Instead it is all praise for how great we've all done...For goodness sake - look at the death toll - try and understand and just admit where you got it wrong.
Thanks for the confirmation 🤛
 

chrisd

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I guess if you want to talk about the truth you ought to listen openly rather than selectively.

There were several statements in his speech were he apologised for some of the stuff that was wrong and stated lessons would be learnt.
Let's not let the truth get in the way of one of Hogans daily anti Boris/Conservatives/Brexit rants. Obviously running the country during a pandemic is easy and Boris is personally responsible for each and every death/mistake/decision and he needs to personally apologise for his mistakes.
 
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Johnson got just over 300,000 more voted than TM, he didn’t blow Corbyn away, Corbyn lost over 2.5 million votes, were did those votes go, they certainly didn’t go to Boris, the voter in the middle could no more vote for boris than they could Corbyn and that’s were the 80 seat majority comes from.

He’s a proven known liar and that will never change, all he cares about is himself.
Interesting way of looking at it, but the Conservatives gained 48 seats and Labour lost 60.
 

pauldj42

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Interesting way of looking at it, but the Conservatives gained 48 seats and Labour lost 60.
Absolutely, Labour got stuffed, I just don’t believe it was down to boris’s character.

People go on about the ground Labour has to make up, if (and it’s a big if) Labour can win back 2 million of their own voters back and no tory votes it leaves boris in a difficult position, he has to convince tories who voted for TM to vote for him.

Would of been a totally different picture if boris had kept the votes TM got plus the 2.5 million from Labour, but he didn’t, he, in theory, was less popular than TM if you discount the so called “Red Wall” votes he won over.
 

SocketRocket

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I'm not convinced infastructure building is a good way to restart the economy, it can give a boost to the building sector and provide some new housing, schools and hospitals but will not really provide the basis for growth and longer term employment. We do need to improve our infrastructure but IMO investment towards a more self sufficient economy would be better.

http://www.aeroponicinvestment.com/news/can-the-uk-ever-be-food-self-sufficient/
 
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pendodave

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I'm not convinced infastructure building is a good way to restart the economy, it can give a boost to the building sector and provide some new housing, schools and hospitals but will not really provide the basis for growth and longer term employment. We do need to improve our infrastructure but IMO investment towards a more self sufficient economy would be better.

http://www.aeroponicinvestment.com/news/can-the-uk-ever-be-food-self-sufficient/
You are correct, but I suspect an analysis of the political contributions of the major infrastructure and building companies will provide all the answers you need... #followthemoney
 

HomerJSimpson

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Even today Johnson can't find room in his speech to admit failings on his and his government's part. Instead it is all praise for how great we've all done...For goodness sake - look at the death toll - try and understand and just admit where you got it wrong.
Perhaps you need to listen closer. There were times when he apologised for mistakes and talked about lessons being learned instead of being selective to suit your agenda of the day
 

drdel

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I'm not convinced infastructure building is a good way to restart the economy, it can give a boost to the building sector and provide some new housing, schools and hospitals but will not really provide the basis for growth and longer term employment. We do need to improve our infrastructure but IMO investment in a more self sufficient economy would be better.
I'd note that our infrastructure is largely unfit for the future; poor railways, out-of-date traffic management in towns, rubbish public transport. Housing stock is poor and energy inefficient.
Large number of hospitals, schools etc are not fit for purpose. UK communications capabilities/bandwidth are way behind the times.
The UK cannot compete in conventional manufacturing with low wage and distorted exchange rates.

These 'projects' take years to get completed so the Government is using the example of the Nightingale Hospitals to give insight as to how the whole project life cycles can be condensed.

Global interest rates are low and we desperately need to modernise after years resting/milking the investments made 100+ years ago otherwise the UK will be behind the curve in future competitiveness. There is not enough wealth (money circulation/velocity) in a 'self sufficient' based British economy to support ~70m people on the small geographical area of the UK so we must drag money in from other countries as we have no significant geological assets.
 

SocketRocket

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I'd note that our infrastructure is largely unfit for the future; poor railways, out-of-date traffic management in towns, rubbish public transport. Housing stock is poor and energy inefficient.
Large number of hospitals, schools etc are not fit for purpose. UK communications capabilities/bandwidth are way behind the times.
The UK cannot compete in conventional manufacturing with low wage and distorted exchange rates.

These 'projects' take years to get completed so the Government is using the example of the Nightingale Hospitals to give insight as to how the whole project life cycles can be condensed.

Global interest rates are low and we desperately need to modernise after years resting/milking the investments made 100+ years ago otherwise the UK will be behind the curve in future competitiveness. There is not enough wealth (money circulation/velocity) in a 'self sufficient' based British economy to support ~70m people on the small geographical area of the UK so we must drag money in from other countries as we have no significant geological assets.
More self sufficient economy, not fully self sufficient.

I take your point but it's a deeper subject than this. The attached is a very interesting and thought provoking read on the economy.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/openeconomy/globalisation-and-self-sufficiency
 
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