6.1b Ball Must Be Played from Inside Teeing Area

Thread starter #1

HampshireHog

Assistant Pro
Joined
Apr 9, 2017
Messages
340
Location
Hampshire
Playing a 4BBB match play this weekend and our opponent plays off the wrong tee and pulls it into to the heather.

We all knew the procedure for stroke play, general penalty and re-tee.

Very surprised that in match play there is no penalty but the opponent has the option to cancel the tee shot (which we declined to do).

In general I always think transgressions in match play are more punished severely than stroke play, so effectively having no penalty seems strange. Any idea why this is so?
 

mikejohnchapman

Challenge Tour Pro
Joined
Oct 5, 2011
Messages
1,061
Location
Dorset
I suspect for the reason you encountered.

If by breaking the rule the ball was in a good position it could be recalled with the possibility of a worse result. If it's in trouble the it's to the opponents advantage to play on.

Basis is that it's the other side who decide rather than in stroke play where it's the rest of the field.
 

rosecott

Money List Winner
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
6,564
Location
Notts
The penalty is that your opponent can chose to put you at a disadvantage.
And, of course, you lose the opportunity of disadvantaging the opponent if you have exercised the new option to play matchplay in conjunction with strokeplay, as strokeplay rules prevail.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
31
And, of course, you lose the opportunity of disadvantaging the opponent if you have exercised the new option to play matchplay in conjunction with strokeplay, as strokeplay rules prevail.
Not really, opponent suffers two stroke penalty. You lose the ability to NOT disadvantage them - i.e. they hit a good shot and you say fair enough, let it stand, correct tees were only a yard behind.

(I'm a fan of allowing concurrent play if necessary - I think most situations such as this where there is a discrepancy don't really amount to very much).
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
50
Playing a 4BBB match play this weekend and our opponent plays off the wrong tee and pulls it into to the heather.

We all knew the procedure for stroke play, general penalty and re-tee.

Very surprised that in match play there is no penalty but the opponent has the option to cancel the tee shot (which we declined to do).

In general I always think transgressions in match play are more punished severely than stroke play, so effectively having no penalty seems strange. Any idea why this is so?
The rules are complicated enough without having 2 sets of rules depending on the format. I would be interested to know why matchplay is not played using pretty much the same rules as strokeplay. Why not have a match where the lowest (net) score wins the hole? If you happen to hit a wrong ball it's a 2 shot penalty? If you tee off outside the teeing area 2 shots etc.

This would not detract at all from the excitement of the psychological and physical battle of two opponents. The arguments I have heard tend to be towards the philosophical end of the rules spectrum.
 

Colin L

Tour Winner
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
3,628
Location
Edinburgh
...... Why not have a match where the lowest (net) score wins the hole? .....
Well, that's one way - the most frequent way - you win a hole in match play. Did you perhaps mean doing away with loss of hole penalties? And concessions?

Also puzzled by both players taking all their handicap strokes. It just means that on any hole at which they both get a stroke, they cancel out. What difference does that make?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
50
Well, that's one way - the most frequent way - you win a hole in match play. Did you perhaps mean doing away with loss of hole penalties? And concessions?

Also puzzled by both players taking all their handicap strokes. It just means that on any hole at which they both get a stroke, they cancel out. What difference does that make?
I should have been clearer. 'Why not have a match where (as now) either the lowest (net) score wins the hole or the hole is won by concession but you are penalised for transgressions as per stroke play rules'.

Yes this means getting rid of loss of hole penalties. It also means bringing teeing area penalties and greens penalties etc into line with stroke play rules. It also means allowing the procedure under 20c (3) if there is uncertainty about the rules. While I'm at it why allow breaches to be overlooked? Leaving players to decide whether or not to ignore a rule sets a bad example when they later compete in stroke play comps. Some rules would stay such as order of play but if the rules were (virtually) unified I doubt it would have any impact on the match enjoyment.

Finally imagine someone relatively new to the game who played a wrong ball in the Saturday comp. His marker would confirm the 2 shot penalty. That same golfer then plays in a match and low and behold he plays a wrong ball. As he is mentally adding the 2 shots to his score his opponent informs him he has lost the hole. He comes into the clubhouse and asks me why. I tell him I don't have the foggiest.

Regarding your second point no you don't take all the shots that would pointless. However if I receive a shot on a particular hole my opponent might say 'you're there for a 4 net 3'. That's what I meant regarding the word net.
 

duncan mackie

Money List Winner
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
11,127
The rules are complicated enough without having 2 sets of rules depending on the format. I would be interested to know why matchplay is not played using pretty much the same rules as strokeplay. Why not have a match where the lowest (net) score wins the hole? If you happen to hit a wrong ball it's a 2 shot penalty? If you tee off outside the teeing area 2 shots etc.

This would not detract at all from the excitement of the psychological and physical battle of two opponents. The arguments I have heard tend to be towards the philosophical end of the rules spectrum.
The reason is that you are playing the person, not the course, and as such your actions are dependant (at least in part, occasionally almost completely) on your opponents.
Simple example, he plays a wrong ball but doesn't realise it until after you decide you have to take on large wet penalty area (formally known as a water hazard) because he's put his ball close to the flag and you are giving a stroke......you put it in the water and concede the hole to save another ball (potentially) and time.
He picks up his ball and realises he has played a wrong ball.
Doesn't really work using penalties without additional, potentially complicated, rules around winding things back and replaying strokes subsequent to the penalty.
Far from philosophical.
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
6,079
Location
Yeovil
The reason is that you are playing the person, not the course, and as such your actions are dependant (at least in part, occasionally almost completely) on your opponents.
A very pertinent point. I know I have frequently changed my mind about what sort of shot to play based upon what the opponent has done
 

rulie

Head Pro
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
773
And, since match play was the original form of the game, it would be a shame to lose its character and significance. If you play a lot of match play, you know the Rules.
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
50
From the original form of the game:

That a lost ball shall be held and considered a lost hole.

If any loose impediment … which is more than a club length from the ball be removed, the penalty shall be the loss of the hole.

If the player’s ball strike … an opponent the opponent shall lose the hole.

If a player play the opponent’s ball, his side shall lose the hole, unless the opponent then play the player’s ball, whereby the penalty is cancelled.

The rules of golf evolve and whilst there may be scenarios such as the one Colin pointed out this is not insurmountable. For example the opponent could be penalised as per stroke play and the player would then have at his discretion the ability to cancel any shots he played subsequent to the wrong ball being played. Just a thought.
 

rulie

Head Pro
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Messages
773
The rules of golf evolve and whilst there may be scenarios such as the one Colin pointed out this is not insurmountable. For example the opponent could be penalised as per stroke play and the player would then have at his discretion the ability to cancel any shots he played subsequent to the wrong ball being played. Just a thought.

And you don't think that is complicated? After they walk 150 yards and discover that a player played a wrong ball and must correct it by going back, and the opponent will do the same because of his cancelled strokes?
Imo, it's quite fine the way it is. Match play Rules are much more cut and dried than stroke play, making for a faster and better game, again imo.
 
Top