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  1. #921
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    Re: And, we’re off.......2018/2019

    Quote Originally Posted by maxfli65 View Post
    Mahrez to City then. Wise buy from Pep? He's not going to be playing in a counter attacking team but a team that has the ball 75% of the time, so without that space to use his pace can he be as effective? Also is Sterling now going to have to compete for a place more?
    I don't think they needed him but can sort of see why they've done. Word is that Bernardo will shift into the centre and become more of a rotational option with D.Silva and KDB, perhaps to begin phasing D.Silva out as he gets older now. So that still leaves them Sane, Sterling and Mahrez as the wide options, Aguero or Jesus up front. There are a lot of games in the season and they'll all get games.
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  2. #922
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    Re: And, we’re off.......2018/2019

    Quote Originally Posted by maxfli65 View Post
    Will Bale be much improved at Real now that bonnie Ronnie has gone? Always seemed he was scared of Ronaldo's shadow, too deferrent.

    Want to see the Bale back that ran Inter ragged all those years ago.
    I don't know that Bale was scared of Ronaldo, I think there was a clear hierarchy at Madrid and everyone knew it. Bale was always going to be second fiddle to Ronaldo, as was everyone else. It was CR's ball and everyone had to play with him, not the other way round. As long as his fitness holds, very key, Bale will get more opportunity to show what he can do, as he did at the end of the season and CL final.

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  3. #923
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    Re: And, we’re off.......2018/2019

    Quote Originally Posted by maxfli65 View Post
    Will Bale be much improved at Real now that bonnie Ronnie has gone? Always seemed he was scared of Ronaldo's shadow, too deferrent.

    Want to see the Bale back that ran Inter ragged all those years ago.
    I'm not sure Bale/Ronaldo was the issue people made it out to be. He had a lot of injuries, then struggled to regain his place from the likes of Isco & Asensio who had come in. I would like to see them maybe buy a top striker to replace Ronaldo, and play all of Bale, Isco and Asensio around them. Someone like Lewandowski perhaps. I know they have Benzema still, but he's not really a top goalscorer so I feel they will miss Ronaldo's goals a lot unless they bring in someone like Lewa instead.
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  4. #924
    Grand Slam Winner Liverpoolphil's Avatar
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    Re: And, we’re off.......2018/2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan2501 View Post
    None of those Chelsea signings were proven top class players at the time, the City ones fair enough, but not those Chelsea signings. Cech had 2 seasons with a poor Stade Rennais squad, was signed as a deputy to Cudicini and very few knew anything about him before he joined Chelsea, Robben was still a promising but relatively unknown young winger who had only had 1 and a half good seasons at PSV, Drogba had a largely average career other than the previous season at Marseille, and Carvalho and Ferreira were signed purely because of their connection to Jose but again were not proven top class players at the time. Those players are all comparable with the type of player West Ham have bought so far, or if anything the West Ham signings are more proven at the highest level than any of those Chelsea signings were at the time.
    seriously ? You seriously think the players that West Ham are buying now - a free transfer from the championship , an injury prone Centre mid , a guy who struggling in Germany and a young CB are at a proven higher level than players like Drogba - took his team to the UEFA Cup final , Robben who was wanted by at the time the top three teams in the Prem , a couple of CL winners - and Cech was signed to be the number 1 hence spending about £8 Mil on him ( a lot of a keeper back then ) and he was at the time the Number One Keeper for a Czech side looking to do very well at the Euros - sorry but take those West Ham specs off , the signings West Ham are making are pretty much the same as what Everton signing last year. You are kidding yourself into thinking they are at a higher level than that - I will be amazed if you find someone else who thinks the same in regards those players
    Last edited by Liverpoolphil; 11-Jul-2018 at 14:00.

  5. #925
    Tour Winner Dan2501's Avatar
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    Re: And, we’re off.......2018/2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil View Post
    seriously ? You seriously think the players that West Ham are buying now - a free transfer from the championship , an injury prone Centre mid , a guy who struggling in Germany and a young CB are at a proven higher level than players like Drogba - took his team to the UEFA Cup final , Robben who was wanted by at the time the top three teams in the Prem , a couple of CL winners - and Cech was signed to be the number 1 hence spending about £8 Mil on him ( a lot of a keeper back then ) and he was at the time the Number One Keeper for a Czech side looking to do very well at the Euros - sorry but take those West Ham specs off , the signings West Ham are making are pretty much the same as what Everton signing last year. You are kidding yourself into thinking they are at a higher level than that - I will be amazed if you find someone else who thinks the same in regards those players
    I don't support West Ham. Why would I have West Ham specs on? I'm viewing these transfers objectively from a neutral point of view.

    Yarmolenko has been absolutely gun for years, has 35 international goals for Ukraine, and although he didn't light up the Bundesliga he did put in some brilliant performances, especially early on in his time there. He's definitely more proven as a winger than Robben was when Chelsea bought him. Sure Robben became a brilliant player but in 2004 he was purely potential, funnily enough, just like this defender West Ham have bought.

    Cech was bought as Cudicini's back-up. £8m was a lot of money, but Cudicini was one of the best goalkeepers in the league until injuries de-railed him. Cech only got the chance in the Chelsea team because of those injuries and that is when he proved himself to be the quality keeper he is. Fabianski is far more proven as a top-level goalkeeper than Cech was when he signed for Chelsea.

    You said the signings Chelsea made were "top of the tree world class players" which simply wasn't true at the time. They became exactly that but when Mourinho signed them they were not.
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  6. #926
    Grand Slam Winner Liverpoolphil's Avatar
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    Re: And, we’re off.......2018/2019

    Yarmolenko has done nothing outside the Ukraine league - his first transfer to a big league and he was poor hence he has left before even doing a year - his international goals have mainly come in friendlies or in qualifiers against smaller nations - suspect he prob is good on FIFA or Football Manager

    He maybe more experienced than Robben was but Robben clearly the better player - Man Utd bidding for him and even then he was already a full international playing in the Euros for Holland - I would guess the fee that West Ham pay is close to what Chelsea paid back then

    Fabianski isn’t proven as a top level keeper - he has played ok at a low level club , sits on the bench for his country where as Cech for his countries number 1 keeper as they got to the semi finals - Raneri signed his as back up - Mourinho wanted him as number 1

    But the initial point is Mourinho bought the right level of players he knew he needed and wanted for the title - CL winners , Starting internationals and the most highly sought after players at the time

    West Ham aren’t buying the same - nowhere near - freebies from Championship , players who have struggled at the highest level , injury prone player and the CB who is supposed to rated - it’s all just a carbon copy of Everton last summer as opposed to trying to fudge some comparison to Chelsea and Man City

    I expect the same sort of season from West Ham as well - these signings aren’t going to propel the team shooting Up the table

  7. #927
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    Re: And, we’re off.......2018/2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan2501 View Post
    I don't support West Ham. Why would I have West Ham specs on? I'm viewing these transfers objectively from a neutral point of view.

    Yarmolenko has been absolutely gun for years, has 35 international goals for Ukraine, and although he didn't light up the Bundesliga he did put in some brilliant performances, especially early on in his time there. He's definitely more proven as a winger than Robben was when Chelsea bought him. Sure Robben became a brilliant player but in 2004 he was purely potential, funnily enough, just like this defender West Ham have bought.

    Cech was bought as Cudicini's back-up. £8m was a lot of money, but Cudicini was one of the best goalkeepers in the league until injuries de-railed him. Cech only got the chance in the Chelsea team because of those injuries and that is when he proved himself to be the quality keeper he is. Fabianski is far more proven as a top-level goalkeeper than Cech was when he signed for Chelsea.

    You said the signings Chelsea made were "top of the tree world class players" which simply wasn't true at the time. They became exactly that but when Mourinho signed them they were not.
    I can't agree with all of this.

    Yarmolenko is now 28 and still unproven in any quality league. Indeed nobody from such a league even took a chance on him until a year ago. Not quite the parallel of Robben who was in demand by top clubs around the world at the age of 20. And even then he was tearing up the Dutch league, which I would say is better than the Ukrainian league.

    Cech was not bought as a back-up. A lot of people assumed that in England because Cudicini was so good at the time that they couldn't fathom Chelsea wanting to replace him. In his first season though he played 35 Premier League games straight away, which sounds like a first choice to me. And again you're comparing a 33-year-old Fabianski to a 22-year-old Cech there. Yes Flappyhandski is proven, a proven half-decent mid-table keeper.

    They weren't signing ready made world class players, but they were signing young players tipped to be the future world class players - the likes of Mbappe now let's say.
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  8. #928
    Tour Winner Dan2501's Avatar
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    Re: And, we’re off.......2018/2019

    Not sure how I got dragged into comparing West Ham's signings to those of Chelsea, that was never the point. West Ham making good signings so far this summer and Chelsea not buying "top of the tree world class players" in 03/04 are completely separate arguments and points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil View Post
    Yarmolenko has done nothing outside the Ukraine league - his first transfer to a big league and he was poor hence he has left before even doing a year - his international goals have mainly come in friendlies or in qualifiers against smaller nations - suspect he prob is good on FIFA or Football Manager

    He maybe more experienced than Robben was but Robben clearly the better player - Man Utd bidding for him and even then he was already a full international playing in the Euros for Holland - I would guess the fee that West Ham pay is close to what Chelsea paid back then

    Fabianski isn’t proven as a top level keeper - he has played ok at a low level club , sits on the bench for his country where as Cech for his countries number 1 keeper as they got to the semi finals - Raneri signed his as back up - Mourinho wanted him as number 1

    But the initial point is Mourinho bought the right level of players he knew he needed and wanted for the title - CL winners , Starting internationals and the most highly sought after players at the time

    West Ham aren’t buying the same - nowhere near - freebies from Championship , players who have struggled at the highest level , injury prone player and the CB who is supposed to rated - it’s all just a carbon copy of Everton last summer as opposed to trying to fudge some comparison to Chelsea and Man City

    I expect the same sort of season from West Ham as well - these signings aren’t going to propel the team shooting Up the table
    Point remains - you said Chelsea were buying "top of the tree world class players" which simply isn't true at the time. They became that, but at the time of signing for Chelsea, Robben wasn't anywhere close to being regarded as a top of the tree player. He was a very talented, dynamic young winger with bags of potential who was yet to achieve anything noteworthy.

    Mourinho didn't have any involvement in Cech's signing. He was signed in Feb by Ranieri and Chelsea's recruitment team - how you know Mourinho wanted him as his number 1 I don't know. Cudicini going into that season was still the best goalkeeper in the league and was set to take the gloves until he got injured. He was just unfortunate that Cech came in and looked awesome so couldn't get his spot back.

    They're not buying the same, but tbh that wasn't my initial point anyway, I was responding to the comment that there'd been very few teams who'd been successful after making a large number of transfers. I wasn't directly comparing West Ham's signings to Chelsea or Man City's title winning sides, you've decided I was doing that, I was merely making the point that there have been teams who have made wholesale changes and been successful. The fact I think West Ham have bought wisely so far this summer is a completely separate point.
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  9. #929
    Grand Slam Winner Liverpoolphil's Avatar
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    Re: And, we’re off.......2018/2019

    For me it seems to me that you are suggesting that West Ham have bought better than what Chelsea did in regards proven players and suggested that players like Fabianski and Yarmolenko are better than Robben and Cech were when they signed for Chelsea

    Where as I believe the signings West Ham have made actually are more comparable to what signings Everton made last year - no one of real quality and the aging injury prone freebie - West Ham aren’t signing “proven at the highest level” - they have four already with no doubt more to come but even then the names linked are still at that mid level

    And my top of the tree was said to both City and Chelsea because they did sign top of the tree players which helped them to gel and win when they bought a lot of players in short spaces of time - you appear used City and Chelsea and to provide substance to your point and then tried to compare the signings where as I’m using Everton as a more comparable situation and even as someone has said Spurs when Bale left or Liverpool when Torres left or when Suarez left

    Last summer I believe Everton had spent a lot and bought a lot but nothing really of any high quality to move them forward and that’s the way it ended up being - West Ham I see doing the same thing right now - buying those middle level players plus a few freebies and the odd “rated potential”

    You see it every summer from the clubs mid to lower end of the table - spending a good amount of money hoping to break through - not many manage it

  10. #930
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    Re: And, we’re off.......2018/2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil View Post
    For me it seems to me that you are suggesting that West Ham have bought better than what Chelsea did in regards proven players and suggested that players like Fabianski and Yarmolenko are better than Robben and Cech were when they signed for Chelsea

    Where as I believe the signings West Ham have made actually are more comparable to what signings Everton made last year - no one of real quality and the aging injury prone freebie - West Ham aren’t signing “proven at the highest level” - they have four already with no doubt more to come but even then the names linked are still at that mid level
    That's never what I said initially. You dragged me into comparing them and I bit, that was never the initial intention of my point. I believe West Ham have bought well so far this summer, I also believe Chelsea did not buy "top of the tree world class players" in that summer transfer window. I never intended to compare the two, and the comparisons of the players purchased I made later in one post were a little silly I will admit, but again, were not the intention of my point. I was arguing a completely separate point when I brought up Chelsea and Man City, you made it into a comparison.
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