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  1. #31
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    Re: Ball unplayable - play provisional instead?

    Just for fun and because I ain't got a game this morning and amusement and debate Pauld’s original post said…

    “Player hits first ball off tee, into trees
    Plays provisional
    Finds first ball having not declared lost - its unplayable
    Can he play the provisional instead, i.e. then hitting fourth shot or should have dropped first ball to make playable? “

    So IF the player declared his intention to play a (or as many as he deems necessary) provisional ball using the exact wording (27_2a/1) because, I assume, he thought the ball ‘may’ be lost in the trees (but not in a hazard) then I believe he’s OK under Rule 27 and does not (yet risk) fall foul of Decision 27-2/1.

    Subsequently the ball is found but is unplayable; as defined by the player at any time. The 3 options are open. Assuming the only possible is to replay the shot from the original position e.g. the ever constant choice of “stroke and distance”. e.g. Decision 28/2.

    The player’s/group's dilemma is then should he/she return to the Tee and replay a shot as in the S&D option OR should he proceed with the ‘legally taken’ provisional; already played in anticipation and because the original may have being lost?

    I concede interpretation of the rules pointed out above requires him/her to delay play of his group and those on the Tee and take the walk of shame back to the Tee and play another ball?

    I rather agree with the sentiments in this article…

    http://treelight.com/golf/rules/stro...nalty-in-golf/

  2. #32
    Money List Winner paddyk's Avatar
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    Re: Ball unplayable - play provisional instead?

    you can always let the group behind through.....

  3. #33
    Tour Winner upsidedown's Avatar
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    Re: Ball unplayable - play provisional instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by drdel View Post
    I rather agree with the sentiments in this article…

    http://treelight.com/golf/rules/stro...nalty-in-golf/
    Shame he doesn't know the unplayable rule

    Unplayable Lie
    This one is almost always unexpected. You hit your ball into trouble, and then manage to find it. The problem is, the rule only gives you one club length to find a spot you can play from. On many courses, that often isn’t enough. (Your option is to go straight back from your position, but when you’re in heavy rough off to the side of the fairway, that generally doesn’t help.)

    http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-....html#!rule-28
    Handicap : 5.2

  4. #34
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    Re: Ball unplayable - play provisional instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by drdel View Post
    I rather agree with the sentiments in this article…
    So, the player cannot actually see the ball on the fairway. He takes a provisional because it 'may' be lost.

    When he gets to his original he sees it has a very poor lie to one side of the fairway and he is shut out by a tree further along on the inside of a dogleg.
    His provisional is on the other side with a perfect lie and he has clear view to the green.

    Which ball does he choose?

    Of course, this is a match and you are his opponent on the 18th all square. Your ball is close to his original but didn't take a provisional.

  5. #35
    Major Champion SwingsitlikeHogan's Avatar
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    Re: Ball unplayable - play provisional instead?

    All very interesting. But if my first shot heads off towards the doggy doo doo and so I declare and play a provisional that ends up in the fairway - I might just walk up to my provisional and play it - choosing to completely ignore my first ball. If my provisional was past likely place of my original, then my provisional is my ball in play and I can go look for my original if I can be bothered - it' a dead ball. If my provisional is shorter than likely place of my original, then I play it but I will not go look for my original.

    Quite simple isn't it?
    to infinity and beyond...

    ...well from 10.0 to 9.4 this year would be nice.

    And with just the October medal to go - I've got to 8.3

    Job done

  6. #36
    Major Champion bobmac's Avatar
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    Re: Ball unplayable - play provisional instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwingsitlikeHogan View Post
    All very interesting. But if my first shot heads off towards the doggy doo doo and so I declare and play a provisional that ends up in the fairway - I might just walk up to my provisional and play it - choosing to completely ignore my first ball. If my provisional was past likely place of my original, then my provisional is my ball in play and I can go look for my original if I can be bothered - it' a dead ball. If my provisional is shorter than likely place of my original, then I play it but I will not go look for my original.

    Quite simple isn't it?
    You'd kick yourself if you found your original in a good lie
    Mad inventor of the www.v-easy.co.uk A knowledgeable person knows lots of stuff, a wise person keeps it to themself

  7. #37
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    Re: Ball unplayable - play provisional instead?

    Providing someone else doesn't see it first.

    I would suggest that if you can see your ball and choose to ignore it, you could be liable to a 33-7 DQ.
    Last edited by rulefan; 11-Feb-2018 at 15:18.

  8. #38
    Challenge Tour Pro
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    Re: Ball unplayable - play provisional instead?

    The "delay" caused by returning to the tee for S&D penalty is built into the rules and is part of an expected pace of play. It is not "slow play," it is an anticipated element of the game.

    Objectionable pace of play is caused by other factors such as not being prepared to play in turn, walking slowly, crowded-course bottlenecks, lack of rules knowledge etc.

    The rules, and principles they are built on should not be sacrificed or changed to fix a problem they do not cause.

    An interesting study would be to find out how much time is spent returning to the tee to play S&D when a player doesn't play a provisional. I'd wager it is a small % of a four/five hour round.

  9. #39
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    Re: Ball unplayable - play provisional instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by atticusfinch View Post
    The "delay" caused by returning to the tee for S&D penalty is built into the rules and is part of an expected pace of play. It is not "slow play," it is an anticipated element of the game.

    Objectionable pace of play is caused by other factors such as not being prepared to play in turn, walking slowly, crowded-course bottlenecks, lack of rules knowledge etc.

    The rules, and principles they are built on should not be sacrificed or changed to fix a problem they do not cause.

    An interesting study would be to find out how much time is spent returning to the tee to play S&D when a player doesn't play a provisional. I'd wager it is a small % of a four/five hour round.
    The way some people talk about it, you'd think it's happening three or four times a round in most groups. I'll suggest that it doesn't happen more than once or twice over an entire day's play on the course, and those that experience it should learn to play provisional balls. It's entirely on them, nobody else and not the Rules. Hopefully, they will learn that "experience is what you get right after you needed it."

  10. #40
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    Re: Ball unplayable - play provisional instead?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsidedown View Post
    Shame he doesn't know the unplayable rule

    Unplayable Lie
    This one is almost always unexpected. You hit your ball into trouble, and then manage to find it. The problem is, the rule only gives you one club length to find a spot you can play from. On many courses, that often isn’t enough. (Your option is to go straight back from your position, but when you’re in heavy rough off to the side of the fairway, that generally doesn’t help.)

    http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-....html#!rule-28
    I hope you meant to type two club lengths.
    Handicap 9 (was 6, now showing my age)An absolute miss mash of clubs

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