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Thread: Hip turn

  1. #1
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    Hip turn

    Does anyone have any good drills for increasing hip turn at the beginning of the downswing?

    Video analysis today, showed all my hip turn was after Id made contact with the ball, I think this leads to my many thin/top shots, as Id dont get my weight forward.

    Showed to me how important video analysis is, as to me it feels the hips turn throug out the swing, but the video proved otherwise!

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    Re: Hip turn

    Quote Originally Posted by foiled View Post
    Does anyone have any good drills for increasing hip turn at the beginning of the downswing?

    Video analysis today, showed all my hip turn was after Id made contact with the ball, I think this leads to my many thin/top shots, as Id dont get my weight forward.

    Showed to me how important video analysis is, as to me it feels the hips turn throug out the swing, but the video proved otherwise!

    Thanks in advance
    often times set-up & what happens with the backswing play into the issues folks have with the downswing - so many variables play into why the hips may not be clearing

    stuff say like a loss of posture in the downswing so everything gets a tad vertical/taller coming into impact which makes 'clearing the lead hip' a lot more than difficult & again often times this sort of stuff is an instinct reaction to trying to square the club face up - what am trying to highlight is the current lack of hip turn may well need to be there to get the clubface squarish on the ball & could well be that the root of the issue is prior to what's happening in the downswing

    technically speaking to the sequence in a swing motion don't really want to turn/rotate the lead hip straight at the beginning of the downswing as that's goin to lead to a bit of a lower body spin which will then tend to throw outwards the trial shoulder & arms leading to a steepish attack angle swinging a bunch leftfield through impact

    without being able to 'see' what's goin on in the swing motion - my take would be first off without a ball just to make some swings to the top of the backswing then feel the weight bump laterally left (just a couple inches) into the lead leg while the sternum & head stay more or less where they are (meaning upper body head don't go laterally left at the same time as the lower body at transition start) then just move the arms down slo-mo until the trail elbow gets right in front of the trail hip (at this point the club shaft would be approx both parallel to the foot line & horizontal to the ground with the clubface angled just a tad towards the ball target line - so if at this point the clubhead was 'toe up' to the sky so with a vertical leading edge at 90 to the ground - then the leading edge would be somewheres between 90 but maybes a tad more like 80 - what don't want here is a leading edge leaning back away that shows some of the face up towards the sky as that would be 'open'

    so the above describes what Justin Rose is doing in the vid here - the vid is extremely short can get a better look at it if you go into 'settings' via the 'cog' under video bottom right & then 'speed' & set to 0.25

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    Re: Hip turn

    Another great post from the_coach, I enjoy reading his contributions.

    My actual coach doesn't give me too much to do on the downswing; his teaching is that you earn the quality of your downswing by the work you put into your backswing. We have had a session on hip turn recently, but this was on the turn back, turning the belt buckle back to get more length in the takeaway when coupled with shoulder turn. Then let everything return to impact. He showed me that thinking about downswing rotation can send things left.

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    Re: Hip turn

    from my experience if you need to turn the hips more on the downswing then the problem is elsewhere. its a natural motion. the same aa you don't think about opening the hips when you throw a stone.

    i had this issue and the problem was i was transferring the weight onto the left side too soon and trapping my hips

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    Re: Hip turn

    Quote Originally Posted by hovis View Post
    from my experience if you need to turn the hips more on the downswing then the problem is elsewhere. its a natural motion. the same aa you don't think about opening the hips when you throw a stone.

    i had this issue and the problem was i was transferring the weight onto the left side too soon and trapping my hips
    what do you mean? sliding onto your left side too much?

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    Re: Hip turn

    Quote Originally Posted by garyinderry View Post
    what do you mean? sliding onto your left side too much?
    the above clip of justin rose isn't him bumping his hips. he has explained that he tries to feel that his hips actually turn away from the target. this turning away from the target keeps his weight on his right side for longer allowing his hips to turn quicker. think about hitting a tennis ball. do you instantly get onto your left side before you start the hit?


    this videos is a little complicated but look how he works his hip. its crazy as this is the polar opposite to what we are thought but strangely achieves the same thing

    https://youtu.be/CSoMAQ65mW8

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    Re: Hip turn

    Thanks for all the tips, coach highlighted that my legs get too straight in the backswing, and so limits my hip turn, hopefully a little more knee bend will help

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    Re: Hip turn

    OP. just highlighted a couple of things that might be an issue in your own swing motion - stuff that can be checked over when you look at your own swing on video - have not idea for sure that the legs may or may not be too straight in the backswing as have not seen the swing motion in question

    but my speaking to legs straightening up prematurely was about sometime in the downswing prior to impact {though it's true that sometimes during the backswing a locking out or over straightening of the trail leg can be an issue in a swing

    would be careful at set-up that the legs are not over bent - ideally there just want to be a tad of flex in both knees so still a felling of being 'tall' but in an athletic posture

    as to the other post comments about what Rosey was doing at transition putting forwards the ideas that JR had no small lateral bump before the lead hip clears - take a look at this real slo-mo vid of a current (May 2017) Rosey face-on driver swing & look closely at the hip motion at transition against the 90 vertical red line I have drawn in just on his lead hip can see the small lateral hip bump as he puts vertical pressure back into the lead leg/foot - before the lead side clears against the lead leg

    also put a marker on the outside of his trail hip to highlight how there is no lateral slide to the trailside during the takeback & backswing



    in biomechanics what's happening in the pelvic girdle & hip sockets (hips) during the backswing/transition/downswing

    the trail 'hip' as the backswing progresses goes into internal rotation with the lead hip staying externally rotated

    - at transition the trail hip moves to being externally rotated as the lead hip also is still in external rotation - so dual external rotation - this is the reason folks see the 'squat' type motion that takes place during most high swing motions

    - as the downswing motion continues so somewheres between 3/4's & 1/2 ways down the trail hip then the lead hip both go into dual internal rotation before the lead side clears against a firm ('posted') lead leg
    Last edited by the_coach; 17-Nov-2017 at 13:10.
    the_coach Handicap Index +4.2
    Driver: TM M2 9.5 M 7M3 X-S w73g
    3metal:TM M2 3m M 80M4 X-S w86g
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    Irons 3 - 9 Callaway Apex Pro 16 KBS Tour C-Taper S+ w125g
    Wedges: Cleveland 588 rtg's 46 bounce 8 KBS 610 S+ w125g. 52 bounce 8 KBS 610 S+ w125g. Fourteen RM 12 (forged) 58 bounce 8 KBS Hi-Rev X-S w135g.
    Putter: Scotty Cameron 2004 Newport Beach 1.5 Milled Titleist Pro V1x -

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    Re: Hip turn

    Quote Originally Posted by the_coach View Post
    OP. just highlighted a couple of things that might be an issue in your own swing motion - stuff that can be checked over when you look at your own swing on video - have not idea for sure that the legs may or may not be too straight in the backswing as have not seen the swing motion in question

    but my speaking to legs straightening up prematurely was about sometime in the downswing prior to impact {though it's true that sometimes during the backswing a locking out or over straightening of the trail leg can be an issue in a swing

    would be careful at set-up that the legs are not over bent - ideally there just want to be a tad of flex in both knees so still a felling of being 'tall' but in an athletic posture

    as to the other post comments about what Rosey was doing at transition putting forwards the ideas that JR had no small lateral bump before the lead hip clears - take a look at this real slo-mo vid of a current (May 2017) Rosey face-on driver swing & look closely at the hip motion at transition against the 90 vertical red line I have drawn in just on his lead hip can see the small lateral hip bump as he puts vertical pressure back into the lead leg/foot - before the lead side clears against the lead leg

    also put a marker on the outside of his trail hip to highlight how there is no lateral slide to the trailside during the takeback & backswing



    in biomechanics what's happening in the pelvic girdle & hip sockets (hips) during the backswing/transition/downswing

    the trail 'hip' as the backswing progresses goes into internal rotation with the lead hip staying externally rotated

    - at transition the trail hip moves to being externally rotated as the lead hip also is still in external rotation - so dual external rotation - this is the reason folks see the 'squat' type motion that takes place during most high swing motions

    - as the downswing motion continues so somewheres between 3/4's & 1/2 ways down the trail hip then the lead hip both go into dual internal rotation before the lead side clears against a firm ('posted') lead leg
    I'm not saying that his hip doesn't move towards the target with a bump or a drive. I'm saying justin explained to the sky cart that in his rehearsal he feels no bump or slide in the downswing and actually feels like his hips open but move away from the target on the down. he said the desire to hit the ball and torso side bend it what makess the hips actually move towards the target.

    when i tried this i instantly had results and added big time distance to my swing. k vest also highlighted that this gave me a near perfect sequence (very poor before)

    one thing a golf pro told me from using 3d analysis is "for most people no conscious effort is required to get onto the left side and this motion is automatic. trying to get on to the left side to start you swing can be very negative towards hip speeds and movement. when i was trying to back my hips up on the downswing i still had 6 inches of hip movement towards the target but my hips worked better and gave much better contact.

    think about a baseball swing. they almost pivot over their trail leg and transfer onto their left to aid the release. imagine what a baseball swing would look like if they're instantly transferred onto their left before stating their swing
    i know people are different
    Last edited by hovis; 17-Nov-2017 at 14:14.

  10. #10
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    Re: Hip turn

    Quote Originally Posted by hovis View Post
    I'm not saying that his hip doesn't move towards the target with a bump or a drive. I'm saying justin explained to the sky cart that in his rehearsal he feels no bump or slide in the downswing and actually feels like his hips open but move away from the target on the down. he said the desire to hit the ball and torso side bend it what makess the hips actually move towards the target.

    when i tried this i instantly had results and added big time distance to my swing. k vest also highlighted that this gave me a near perfect sequence (very poor before)

    one thing a golf pro told me from using 3d analysis is "for most people no conscious effort is required to get onto the left side and this motion is automatic. trying to get on to the left side to start you swing can be very negative towards hip speeds and movement. when i was trying to back my hips up on the downswing i still had 6 inches of hip movement towards the target but my hips worked better and gave much better contact.

    think about a baseball swing. they almost pivot over their trail leg and transfer onto their left to aid the release. imagine what a baseball swing would look like if they're instantly transferred onto their left before stating their swing
    i know people are different

    understand the area you are talking about - & feel to real is most times a different experience

    wouldn't totally agree with the pro though understand the general point - for sure as an 'ideal' it would be better for folks if it was just 'automatic' to start to get to the leadside at transition in a good efficient way but for a very big group of folks it is not a good automatic process for many what they do as 'automatic' is an incorrect motion & also for a large number of folks the transition move is far from being or feelin automatic
    see far more people with my use of 3d analysis that have issues with transition - it's only automatic in a good way if the swing motion sequence is good one that's not where the larger group of index players are in my experience

    apart from the 'statics' of set-up & the grip hold & the 1st couple of feet of the takeaway - the transition is an area of the golf motion that causes huge amount of issues in folks swing motion

    also think there's a misunderstanding of the small lateral bump to the leadside at transition there's not talk from me in the post of an instant & total transfer of weight pressure to the leadside at the start of the swing - this happens because a part of the weight pressure (not mass) is being replaced from the trailside - top of backswing you got say 75% & upwards of weight pressure on the trail leg
    that initial bump through the start of the change of weight pressure back to the leadside - is just that the start of the process (even though it is happening over a short amount of time) that bump of weight pressure is not instantly placing all of the weight pressure on the leadside - its starting the process so around halfways in the downswing when the shaft is getting to last horizontal position the weight pressure trail to lead is somewheres around 50:50 the hips more returned to 'square' at that kinda 'squat' position you see in most high end swing motions
    it's not that at transition the weight pressure is 'instantly' all back jumped onto the lead leg with a big lateral shift

    baseball batter moves into internal hip rotation the trail leg on then moves off of the trail leg with a lead leg fall trail leg push step to hit the ball but their lower bodies do not have to support a complete upper body rotation through the hit the batter's arms usually never finish as high or as far back as a golfers
    one of the reasons as the lead hip doesn't clear the same the upper body doesn't rotate as much that it's common to see the trail hand come off of the bat & it continue in the lead hand only

    with a golf swing (certain method golf swing models excluded) weight pressure moves trailside over the time of the backswing at transition the weight pressure movement is reversed back to the leadside through both transition & the downswing

    great that you have found good improvement very quickly through the lessons & the use of a K-vest that measures in time through biofeedback the upper body kinematic sequence - though that's not strictly a complete 3d analysis system when compared to something like 'gears'

    hope the game continues to go real good - good shooting !
    the_coach Handicap Index +4.2
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