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  1. #31
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    Re: Must I strike the ball first?

    Quote Originally Posted by clubchamp98 View Post

    If a player and his caddy can't move said obstruction themselves then it's not a moveable obstruction.
    The definition and rule relating to a movable obstruction already make provision for it being moved without unreasonable effort.

    But the object we are discussing is a loose impediment. Quite a different animal.

  2. #32
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    Re: Must I strike the ball first?

    Quote Originally Posted by rulefan View Post
    The definition and rule relating to a movable obstruction already make provision for it being moved without unreasonable effort.

    But the object we are discussing is a loose impediment. Quite a different animal.
    yes it is , my apologies ! but I would say the same thing for loose impediments and movable obstructions .
    If you or your caddy can't move it then it stays where it is, enlisting the crowd IMO of course is or should not be an option!

    The course designer put that there for a reason just because it's not embedded Dosnt mean you can get a JCB and move it.

    I can't remember now but did they put it back ? Because if another player landed behind it in its new spot that penalises him if he has no gallery or JCB handy.

    As has been said forty years ago this would not have been the definition of a loose impediment . That could have been moved easily.

    Just watched the vid Jonny Miller called it a dumb rule and almost all the commentators thought it was wrong, but not against the rules and that's what matters.
    Last edited by clubchamp98; 12-Oct-2017 at 21:12.

  3. #33
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    Re: Must I strike the ball first?

    [QUOTE=Slab;1756182]Situation is: Ball in red staked hazard, but dry, and comes to rest side by side and touching a stone (roughly golf ball sized)


    Even if I could accurately nick just the ball forward or back without touching the stone, other obstacles mean its not an option


    Is it within the rules to address and play it a bit like a snooker canon shot i.e address at the back of the stone so I'd hit the stone first which then moves the ball x distance (hopefully back into play)

    And does the answer change if ball/stone are not touching?

    Thanks[/QUOTE
    I think this is a bit dangerous don't you .

    Golfers have been killed by breaking shafts
    splints of rock in eyes

    can't think there would ever be a situation where I would do this.

  4. #34
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    Re: Must I strike the ball first?

    Quote Originally Posted by clubchamp98 View Post
    As has been said forty years ago this would not have been the definition of a loose impediment . That could have been moved easily.
    I don't know where that was said but forty years ago this was the definition of a Loose Impediment.

    Loose Impediments
    The term 'Loose impediments' denotes natural objects not fixed or growing and not adhering to the ball, and includes stones not solidly embedded, leaves, twigs, branches and the like, dung, worms and insects and casts or heaps made by them.
    Snow and ice are either casual water or loose impediments, at the option of the player.
    Sand and loose soils are loose impediments on the putting green, but not elsewhere on the course.


    In effect, it hasn't changed

  5. #35
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    Re: Must I strike the ball first?

    1952: The term "loose impediments" denotes natural objects not fixed or growing or adhering to the ball, and includes stones not solidly embedded, leaves, twigs, branches and the like, dung, worms and insects and casts or heaps made by them.


  6. #36
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    Re: Must I strike the ball first?

    Quote Originally Posted by clubchamp98 View Post
    yes it is , my apologies ! but I would say the same thing for loose impediments and movable obstructions .
    If you or your caddy can't move it then it stays where it is, enlisting the crowd IMO of course is or should not be an option!

    The course designer put that there for a reason just because it's not embedded Dosnt mean you can get a JCB and move it.

    I can't remember now but did they put it back ? Because if another player landed behind it in its new spot that penalises him if he has no gallery or JCB handy.

    As has been said forty years ago this would not have been the definition of a loose impediment . That could have been moved easily.

    Just watched the vid Jonny Miller called it a dumb rule and almost all the commentators thought it was wrong, but not against the rules and that's what matters.
    Your arguments are being correctly dismissed. Maybe you should stop digging that hole and recognize that what transpired was within the Rules for the last half century, and still is? Imo, it's time to move on.

  7. #37
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    Re: Must I strike the ball first?

    Quote Originally Posted by rulie View Post
    Your arguments are being correctly dismissed. Maybe you should stop digging that hole and recognize that what transpired was within the Rules for the last half century, and still is? Imo, it's time to move on.
    Really I think it's the rules that need to move on !
    You should not be able to get a posse to move a boulder the course designer has placed on the course.
    The interpretation of a loose impediment needs to be updated and if you can't move it yourself then it stays where it is.

    Other rules are being updated so don't see why this can't be.

    I thought the RandA wanted the thoughts of golfers on the updates.

  8. #38
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    Re: Must I strike the ball first?

    Quote Originally Posted by rulie View Post
    Your arguments are being correctly dismissed. Maybe you should stop digging that hole and recognize that what transpired was within the Rules for the last half century, and still is? Imo, it's time to move on.
    Did you read my last sentence?
    i know it's in the rules but that Dosnt mean it's right IMO of course

  9. #39
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    Re: Must I strike the ball first?

    Quote Originally Posted by clubchamp98 View Post
    Really I think it's the rules that need to move on !
    You should not be able to get a posse to move a boulder the course designer has placed on the course.
    The interpretation of a loose impediment needs to be updated and if you can't move it yourself then it stays where it is.

    Other rules are being updated so don't see why this can't be.

    I thought the RandA wanted the thoughts of golfers on the updates.
    Why do you suggest it is out of date (ie needs updating) as opposed to changing? Why is this any less right now than in the past? What has happened to cause a review?

    There was plenty of opportunity to review it at the time of the Woods incident.
    Last edited by rulefan; 13-Oct-2017 at 08:21.

  10. #40
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    Re: Must I strike the ball first?

    [QUOTE=rulefan;1756983][COLOR=#3E3E3E]



    Is this the incident ?

    No that is not the incident I was referring to. It was the incident I described.

    I was amazed at the time that he would play such a shot as in my mind he could have broken his or sprained his wrist and the US Open was only a couple of weeks away

    On reflection (it was quite a few years ago) the stone may have been greenside of the ball.
    Last edited by jim8flog; 13-Oct-2017 at 09:12.

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