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  1. #1
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    Where is my ball likely to be?

    Reading LIG's recent thread has got me wondering about the following scenario ...

    A player hits his tee shot down a tree lined fairway, facing directly into the sun. No-one is sure where it's gone. Ball could have been heading left or right and you hear a clatter on a tree. The bounce of the tree means it could have gone anywhere. Player plays a provisonal straight down the middle, nice & low and everyone sees where it goes.

    Everyone goes to look for original but after less than 5 minutes search, player plays the provisional . Original then found immediately after - to comments along lines of "well, l wouldn't have expected to find it there?"

    Given that no one had any idea where the original was heading, how do you decide if the provisional had been played from near the hole than where "the original ball is likely to be" - as that is not necessarily the same as where its actually found? (because of decision 27-2b/4).

    In this case, do you just take the found position as the reference point?
    Last edited by backwoodsman; 30-Aug-2017 at 06:01.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Where is my ball likely to be?

    No - the found position is irrelevant.

    You make your best estimate, or in this case guess.

    In the absence of any comment in this case there has been a search, and he has then played the provisional from a position in front of that - it's the in play and the original lost.

    If he had stated that he felt that the original ball would be further up than where his provisional was and he was playing it now to save time, I would have been happy that the original ball when found within 5 mins was still in play.

    Even better in such a situation is not to play the provisional until you have exhausted your 5 mins and options.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Where is my ball likely to be?

    Very difficult to justify playing the provisional in these circumstances unless you hit it a very short distance. If you had a good idea where th original went then fair enough but not in this scenario.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Where is my ball likely to be?

    Ta both.

    By way of explanation, because l was interested in "the principle", I deliberately didnít ponder anything about the relative quality of strike for either ball nor about the magnitude of separation between the theoretical provisional and "found" original, nor which was the further forward.

    The point about not playing the provisional until the full 5 mins is up makes perfect sense. (Although I was envisioning the player playing the provisional having given up hope of finding the first rather than saving time).

    Should the situation actually arise, l think I'd go along with telling the player to search the full 5, saying something along lines of ... if you play it now, l think we'll have to regard it as in play, as we will have difficulty justifying a lucky find of the original as being in play - no matter where it's found.
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    Re: Where is my ball likely to be?

    Why not just say as we havent found it on way up il still hit this as a provo and we can use the remainder of the 5 min searching from here twords the hole
    once u search forward there is no chance of playing the provo from in front of it and if u exhaust the 5 min then u have ur ball in play if u find it in the 5 ur elected
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    Re: Where is my ball likely to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by bladeplayer View Post
    Why not just say as we havent found it on way up il still hit this as a provo and we can use the remainder of the 5 min searching from here twords the hole
    once u search forward there is no chance of playing the provo from in front of it and if u exhaust the 5 min then u have ur ball in play if u find it in the 5 ur elected
    Good point - I see a lot of players hit their provisional a second time without saying it's a provisional ball.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Where is my ball likely to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikejohnchapman View Post
    Good point - I see a lot of players hit their provisional a second time without saying it's a provisional ball.
    Don't understand this comment? You only need to say provisional once, just before you put the second ball into play.

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    Re: Where is my ball likely to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by bladeplayer View Post
    Why not just say as we havent found it on way up il still hit this as a provo and we can use the remainder of the 5 min searching from here twords the hole
    once u search forward there is no chance of playing the provo from in front of it and if u exhaust the 5 min then u have ur ball in play if u find it in the 5 ur elected
    Don't see how this would work. The point of my query was that after hitting the provisional the first time and it was lying on the fairway, you did not know whether it was lying nearer, or further from, the hole than "where the original was likely to be". (As oposed to where the original was if it perchance got found) Therefore you did not know whether you could play it again without it automatically becoming the ball in play.
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  9. #9
    Money List Winner bladeplayer's Avatar
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    Re: Where is my ball likely to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by backwoodsman View Post
    Don't see how this would work. The point of my query was that after hitting the provisional the first time and it was lying on the fairway, you did not know whether it was lying nearer, or further from, the hole than "where the original was likely to be". (As oposed to where the original was if it perchance got found) Therefore you did not know whether you could play it again without it automatically becoming the ball in play.
    As i say if ya have looked for it on way up and havent found its safe to say its either lost or further ahead , unless u plan to walk back and search again u announce this is still bn played as a provisional until the 5 min has expired or i find my original between here and the hole (ie in front of the provo so its ok)
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  10. #10
    Money List Winner bladeplayer's Avatar
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    Re: Where is my ball likely to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by rulie View Post
    Don't understand this comment? You only need to say provisional once, just before you put the second ball into play.
    I think its safer to save all confusion to announce its still as a provisional , some ppl are not going to have a good enough understanding of the rules to know u can do this ..
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