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Thread: Is CSS flawed?

  1. #1
    Tour Winner Maninblack4612's Avatar
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    Is CSS flawed?

    There are lots of threads complaining about CSS calculations & a lot demonstrate a misunderstanding of how it works. BUT it does seem as if the high handicappers hitting the buffer zone has a disproportionate effect. A mate of mine, whose handicap see saws between 4 & 5, refuses to play in club comps because he cannot play to his handicap at home. We play on a short, often windswept, course, where CSS is rarely more than +1. This guy maintains his handicap by competing in local & Scottish scratch tournaments, restricted to low handicappers. Often, on championship courses, the CSS is 3 or 4 shots over normal SSS, mainly due to the absence of cat 4 players buffering.

    Surely this is wrong. If the system worked correctly wouldn't you expect his performance on his home course to reflect the same handicap as his home scores? He's proved over several years that this is not the case.

    Does the system need reviewing?
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  2. #2
    Hall of Famer Liverpoolphil's Avatar
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    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    It is being reviewed - hence the possible world handicap system and use slope system

    Blaming high HC is poor - what is stopping him playing to his HC and then getting cut that way if the CSS is one more than SSS -maybe he has the wrong Hc and it should be higher then. And one players scores doesnt prove or disprove any HC system.
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    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maninblack4612 View Post
    There are lots of threads complaining about CSS calculations & a lot demonstrate a misunderstanding of how it works. BUT it does seem as if the high handicappers hitting the buffer zone has a disproportionate effect. A mate of mine, whose handicap see saws between 4 & 5, refuses to play in club comps because he cannot play to his handicap at home. We play on a short, often windswept, course, where CSS is rarely more than +1. This guy maintains his handicap by competing in local & Scottish scratch tournaments, restricted to low handicappers. Often, on championship courses, the CSS is 3 or 4 shots over normal SSS, mainly due to the absence of cat 4 players buffering.

    Surely this is wrong. If the system worked correctly wouldn't you expect his performance on his home course to reflect the same handicap as his home scores? He's proved over several years that this is not the case.

    Does the system need reviewing?
    I have no issues with it and my home course has a sss less than par and I'm not scared to put my handicap on the line. (he says whilst avoiding comps due to a bout of the yips!)

    We have a couple of county players who play comps on a regular basis.

    Your mate needs to play better or maybe smarter. I bet his course management is better on a less familar away track, often we play on auto pilot around our home course and not always choose the best best shot options.
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    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    What everyone seems to forget on these SSS threads, is that you (in most cases) gain your handicap from the low SSS as well.

    So a hypothetical course of par 72, scratch 70. Hypothetical golfer hands his 3 cards in and his best is an adjusted 80, so gets (I know he doesn't because of a formula but for simplicities sake) 10.

    He goes out the following week and shoots 80 and thinks he's 2 better than hc when he is actually level.

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    Tour Winner Maninblack4612's Avatar
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    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil View Post
    It is being reviewed - hence the possible world handicap system and use slope system

    Blaming high HC is poor - what is stopping him playing to his HC and then getting cut that way if the CSS is one more than SSS -maybe he has the wrong Hc and it should be higher then. And one players scores doesnt prove or disprove any HC system.
    But he can play to it on hard, championship courses. Did you not read the thread properly?
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    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maninblack4612 View Post
    But he can play to it on hard, championship courses. Did you not read the thread properly?
    You said he maintains his handicap by playing courses that have +3 or +4 CSS. So he could shoot 8/9 over and his handicap won't adjust. Makes it easier to maintain that!

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    Hall of Famer Liverpoolphil's Avatar
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    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maninblack4612 View Post
    But he can play to it on hard, championship courses. Did you not read the thread properly?
    really ? He says he is "maintaining his HC" which means that on courses that have SSS 3,4 etc over par that means he is just hitting buffers which means he is playing 3 or 4 over his HC

    If he was playing to HC at these comps he would be getting cut every single time
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    Tour Winner Maninblack4612's Avatar
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    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil View Post
    really ? He says he is "maintaining his HC" which means that on courses that have SSS 3,4 etc over par that means he is just hitting buffers which means he is playing 3 or 4 over his HC

    If he was playing to HC at these comps he would be getting cut every single time
    What? As far as I'm concerned, playing to your handicap is shooting a nett score equal to or better than CSS. The point I was making is that he can do it a darn sight easier on hard courses played on by, in some cases, international players than he can on his own. This shouldn't be the case, it shouldn't make any difference.
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  9. #9
    Tour Winner Maninblack4612's Avatar
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    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by saving_par View Post
    I have no issues with it and my home course has a sss less than par and I'm not scared to put my handicap on the line. (he says whilst avoiding comps due to a bout of the yips!)

    We have a couple of county players who play comps on a regular basis.

    Your mate needs to play better or maybe smarter. I bet his course management is better on a less familar away track, often we play on auto pilot around our home course and not always choose the best best shot options.


    I don't think that this is the case at all. It's more to do with the fact that, at home, there can be rain & gale force winds & the CSS comes out at +1

    You may have a couple of county players who play comps at home but that's not to say that their handicaps wouldn't be lower if they didn't.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    I have a cat 1 friend who feels the exact same way as the OP mate, the SSS is -1 the course par, he feels that he is effectively playing off 4 instead of 5 all the time. CSS very rarely changes from the SSS.
    Anyone want to explain exactly how CSS is worked out in relation to the difference catagory of players?
    How are cat 4 guys bringing the CSS down?

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