Page 1 of 20 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 194

Thread: Is CSS flawed?

  1. #1
    Tour Winner Maninblack4612's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    South Shields
    Posts
    3,042

    Is CSS flawed?

    There are lots of threads complaining about CSS calculations & a lot demonstrate a misunderstanding of how it works. BUT it does seem as if the high handicappers hitting the buffer zone has a disproportionate effect. A mate of mine, whose handicap see saws between 4 & 5, refuses to play in club comps because he cannot play to his handicap at home. We play on a short, often windswept, course, where CSS is rarely more than +1. This guy maintains his handicap by competing in local & Scottish scratch tournaments, restricted to low handicappers. Often, on championship courses, the CSS is 3 or 4 shots over normal SSS, mainly due to the absence of cat 4 players buffering.

    Surely this is wrong. If the system worked correctly wouldn't you expect his performance on his home course to reflect the same handicap as his home scores? He's proved over several years that this is not the case.

    Does the system need reviewing?
    Taylormade M1 9˝°, Matrix Black Tie 6M3 Regular
    Taylormade SLDR 3 wood
    Taylormade SLDR 5 wood
    TaylormadeSLDR Rescue 22°
    Mizuno JPX850 forged irons 4 - PW
    Titelist Vokey 50 & 58 wedges
    Odyssey Metal X No. 1,Ping Anser Redwood, Ping Anser blade (1960s vintage) (depending on how they behave)
    Vice Pro Plus ball
    H/C 9 @ ssgc.co.uk

  2. #2
    Hall of Famer Liverpoolphil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    36,745

    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    It is being reviewed - hence the possible world handicap system and use slope system

    Blaming high HC is poor - what is stopping him playing to his HC and then getting cut that way if the CSS is one more than SSS -maybe he has the wrong Hc and it should be higher then. And one players scores doesnt prove or disprove any HC system.
    "It's called golf because all the other four letter words were already taken"

  3. #3
    Challenge Tour Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cumbria
    Posts
    548

    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maninblack4612 View Post
    There are lots of threads complaining about CSS calculations & a lot demonstrate a misunderstanding of how it works. BUT it does seem as if the high handicappers hitting the buffer zone has a disproportionate effect. A mate of mine, whose handicap see saws between 4 & 5, refuses to play in club comps because he cannot play to his handicap at home. We play on a short, often windswept, course, where CSS is rarely more than +1. This guy maintains his handicap by competing in local & Scottish scratch tournaments, restricted to low handicappers. Often, on championship courses, the CSS is 3 or 4 shots over normal SSS, mainly due to the absence of cat 4 players buffering.

    Surely this is wrong. If the system worked correctly wouldn't you expect his performance on his home course to reflect the same handicap as his home scores? He's proved over several years that this is not the case.

    Does the system need reviewing?
    I have no issues with it and my home course has a sss less than par and I'm not scared to put my handicap on the line. (he says whilst avoiding comps due to a bout of the yips!)

    We have a couple of county players who play comps on a regular basis.

    Your mate needs to play better or maybe smarter. I bet his course management is better on a less familar away track, often we play on auto pilot around our home course and not always choose the best best shot options.
    Callaway XR 9°
    Ping Anser 14.5°
    Srixon Z U45 18°
    Srixon Z 745 4-PW
    Cleveland RTX 2.0 50°, 56°, 60°
    Taylormade Itsy Bitsy Spider

    Hcap - 4

  4. #4
    Ryder Cup Winner Region3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    12,191

    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    What everyone seems to forget on these SSS threads, is that you (in most cases) gain your handicap from the low SSS as well.

    So a hypothetical course of par 72, scratch 70. Hypothetical golfer hands his 3 cards in and his best is an adjusted 80, so gets (I know he doesn't because of a formula but for simplicities sake) 10.

    He goes out the following week and shoots 80 and thinks he's 2 better than hc when he is actually level.

  5. #5
    Tour Winner Maninblack4612's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    South Shields
    Posts
    3,042

    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil View Post
    It is being reviewed - hence the possible world handicap system and use slope system

    Blaming high HC is poor - what is stopping him playing to his HC and then getting cut that way if the CSS is one more than SSS -maybe he has the wrong Hc and it should be higher then. And one players scores doesnt prove or disprove any HC system.
    But he can play to it on hard, championship courses. Did you not read the thread properly?
    Taylormade M1 9˝°, Matrix Black Tie 6M3 Regular
    Taylormade SLDR 3 wood
    Taylormade SLDR 5 wood
    TaylormadeSLDR Rescue 22°
    Mizuno JPX850 forged irons 4 - PW
    Titelist Vokey 50 & 58 wedges
    Odyssey Metal X No. 1,Ping Anser Redwood, Ping Anser blade (1960s vintage) (depending on how they behave)
    Vice Pro Plus ball
    H/C 9 @ ssgc.co.uk

  6. #6
    Journeyman Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,871

    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maninblack4612 View Post
    But he can play to it on hard, championship courses. Did you not read the thread properly?
    You said he maintains his handicap by playing courses that have +3 or +4 CSS. So he could shoot 8/9 over and his handicap won't adjust. Makes it easier to maintain that!

  7. #7
    Hall of Famer Liverpoolphil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    36,745

    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maninblack4612 View Post
    But he can play to it on hard, championship courses. Did you not read the thread properly?
    really ? He says he is "maintaining his HC" which means that on courses that have SSS 3,4 etc over par that means he is just hitting buffers which means he is playing 3 or 4 over his HC

    If he was playing to HC at these comps he would be getting cut every single time
    "It's called golf because all the other four letter words were already taken"

  8. #8
    Tour Winner Maninblack4612's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    South Shields
    Posts
    3,042

    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolphil View Post
    really ? He says he is "maintaining his HC" which means that on courses that have SSS 3,4 etc over par that means he is just hitting buffers which means he is playing 3 or 4 over his HC

    If he was playing to HC at these comps he would be getting cut every single time
    What? As far as I'm concerned, playing to your handicap is shooting a nett score equal to or better than CSS. The point I was making is that he can do it a darn sight easier on hard courses played on by, in some cases, international players than he can on his own. This shouldn't be the case, it shouldn't make any difference.
    Taylormade M1 9˝°, Matrix Black Tie 6M3 Regular
    Taylormade SLDR 3 wood
    Taylormade SLDR 5 wood
    TaylormadeSLDR Rescue 22°
    Mizuno JPX850 forged irons 4 - PW
    Titelist Vokey 50 & 58 wedges
    Odyssey Metal X No. 1,Ping Anser Redwood, Ping Anser blade (1960s vintage) (depending on how they behave)
    Vice Pro Plus ball
    H/C 9 @ ssgc.co.uk

  9. #9
    Tour Winner Maninblack4612's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    South Shields
    Posts
    3,042

    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    Quote Originally Posted by saving_par View Post
    I have no issues with it and my home course has a sss less than par and I'm not scared to put my handicap on the line. (he says whilst avoiding comps due to a bout of the yips!)

    We have a couple of county players who play comps on a regular basis.

    Your mate needs to play better or maybe smarter. I bet his course management is better on a less familar away track, often we play on auto pilot around our home course and not always choose the best best shot options.


    I don't think that this is the case at all. It's more to do with the fact that, at home, there can be rain & gale force winds & the CSS comes out at +1

    You may have a couple of county players who play comps at home but that's not to say that their handicaps wouldn't be lower if they didn't.
    Taylormade M1 9˝°, Matrix Black Tie 6M3 Regular
    Taylormade SLDR 3 wood
    Taylormade SLDR 5 wood
    TaylormadeSLDR Rescue 22°
    Mizuno JPX850 forged irons 4 - PW
    Titelist Vokey 50 & 58 wedges
    Odyssey Metal X No. 1,Ping Anser Redwood, Ping Anser blade (1960s vintage) (depending on how they behave)
    Vice Pro Plus ball
    H/C 9 @ ssgc.co.uk

  10. #10
    Tour Rookie
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,281

    Re: Is CSS flawed?

    I have a cat 1 friend who feels the exact same way as the OP mate, the SSS is -1 the course par, he feels that he is effectively playing off 4 instead of 5 all the time. CSS very rarely changes from the SSS.
    Anyone want to explain exactly how CSS is worked out in relation to the difference catagory of players?
    How are cat 4 guys bringing the CSS down?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Latest Golf News

Quiz Of The Week – 20th October

Test your knowledge of this week in golf with our latest quiz!

October 20, 2017

American Golf Deals: The Best Current Offers

We check out the best deal that retailer American Golf currently have on their site

October 20, 2017

Amazon Golf Deals – The Best Current Offers

Amazon is an incredible place to buy anything of course, but the golf section on the website is a great place to find some goodies for your game

October 20, 2017

Five Of The Best Clifftop Golf Courses

Our historic links are the lifeblood and roots of golf, but clifftop courses offer a coastal contrast that is often even more dramatic

October 20, 2017

7 Things We Expected In 2017 That Didn’t Happen

It's been a year of surprises in 2017, Rory didn't win a fifth major and Matsuyama didn't reach the world #1 spot

October 19, 2017