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  1. #41
    Major Champion chrisd's Avatar
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    Re: Declaring a ball lost…… SPOILER ALERT re Scottish Open

    Quote Originally Posted by Maninblack4612 View Post
    Apologies, didn't read the OP properly. I wasn't aware of this.

    Actually, abandoning a ball without searching when your provisional is down the middle is not in the spirit of the game, although everyone does it. The point is that the provisional is only to save time if you really can't find your first, not to give you the choice of which to play. This is why you can't play you provisional if you find that your first ball is in an unplayable lie.
    I don't agree about not searching being wrong in the spirit of the game. If most players don't look when their ball is deep in the cack, then they take their penalty and move on. As you say, we all do it and there us no requirement to search so it speeds up play and the player has paid for his error, also, he may possibly have found his ball in a better lie than he thought and so cost a shot he otherwise might not have incurred
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  2. #42
    Tour Rookie IanM's Avatar
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    Re: Declaring a ball lost…… SPOILER ALERT re Scottish Open

    Quote Originally Posted by paddyk View Post
    You get to the green and find your first is in bounds and lying well looking like a straight forward up and down maybe even a chip in, but you've got a 7

    Still a stupid rule?

    ... only if you'd rather sign for the 7
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  3. #43
    Tour Rookie Capella's Avatar
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    Re: Declaring a ball lost…… SPOILER ALERT re Scottish Open

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisd View Post
    I don't agree about not searching being wrong in the spirit of the game. If most players don't look when their ball is deep in the cack, then they take their penalty and move on. As you say, we all do it and there us no requirement to search so it speeds up play and the player has paid for his error, also, he may possibly have found his ball in a better lie than he thought and so cost a shot he otherwise might not have incurred
    It is wrong because it means you are making a choice. A provisional ball is not about giving you a choice which ball to play, it is just there to save time in case the original ball cannot be found. Meaning according to the spirit of the game, how good or bad your provisional turned out should not influence how much effort you put into looking for the original ball. I understand that in real life, this is near impossible. Spirit of the game or not, we are alll just human. But that's the original idea behind it. If you want to give up on the first ball, fine. Do that, but then don't hit a provisional, just declare the original ball lost from where you stand and hit a new ball. When you declare the second ball a provisional, that is a moral commitment to search for the first one.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Declaring a ball lost…… SPOILER ALERT re Scottish Open

    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    Is it not the case that if I didn't declare a provisional I was then taking 3 off the tee and then that ball was immediately in play.
    Yes but if you do the same with that one and your original is then found you can't play the original, you're looking at 5 off the tee.

  5. #45
    Major Champion chrisd's Avatar
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    Re: Declaring a ball lost…… SPOILER ALERT re Scottish Open

    Quote Originally Posted by Capella View Post
    It is wrong because it means you are making a choice. A provisional ball is not about giving you a choice which ball to play, it is just there to save time in case the original ball cannot be found. Meaning according to the spirit of the game, how good or bad your provisional turned out should not influence how much effort you put into looking for the original ball. I understand that in real life, this is near impossible. Spirit of the game or not, we are alll just human. But that's the original idea behind it. If you want to give up on the first ball, fine. Do that, but then don't hit a provisional, just declare the original ball lost from where you stand and hit a new ball. When you declare the second ball a provisional, that is a moral commitment to search for the first one.
    If the powers that be thought the same im sure they would have written the rules differently. I don't see any moral requirement to search as it's a rules based game, and there is no rule that requires a player to search for his ball. Playing a provisional is done more for the pace of play and not searching (and accepting the penalty) is certainly helping in that respect.

    Do you ALWAYS search for your ball?
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  6. #46
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    Re: Declaring a ball lost…… SPOILER ALERT re Scottish Open

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisd View Post
    I don't agree about not searching being wrong in the spirit of the game. If most players don't look when their ball is deep in the cack, then they take their penalty and move on. As you say, we all do it and there us no requirement to search so it speeds up play and the player has paid for his error, also, he may possibly have found his ball in a better lie than he thought and so cost a shot he otherwise might not have incurred
    I agree, I would also suggested a FC looking for a ball after being told to leave it is not in the spirit of the game (matchplay is different I suppose).

    Rounds of golf take long enough as it is without looking for balls not wanting to be found.

  7. #47
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    Re: Declaring a ball lost…… SPOILER ALERT re Scottish Open

    Quote Originally Posted by Val View Post
    I agree, I would also suggested a FC looking for a ball after being told to leave it is not in the spirit of the game (matchplay is different I suppose).

    Rounds of golf take long enough as it is without looking for balls not wanting to be found.
    I think it's somewhat circumstance dependant.

    In my opinion if it's likely / there's a good chance the ball will be found the player should look for it, if it is unlikely then it is up to them whether they want to or not.

    I fall in between Capella and ChrisD on this. I don't think there is a moral obligation to spend a full 5 minutes searching for every lost ball, but if there is a decent chance of finding it you should look for it. The provisional should be a time saving exercise not a choice.
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  8. #48

    Re: Declaring a ball lost…… SPOILER ALERT re Scottish Open

    Quote Originally Posted by Canary_Yellow View Post
    I think it's somewhat circumstance dependant.

    In my opinion if it's likely / there's a good chance the ball will be found the player should look for it, if it is unlikely then it is up to them whether they want to or not.
    Well...given that the object of the game is to get the ball in the hole in as few a strokes as possible then I'd replace the text in red with the following...

    "the player will score better with the original ball than with the provisional"
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  9. #49
    Tour Rookie Capella's Avatar
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    Re: Declaring a ball lost…… SPOILER ALERT re Scottish Open

    I am not saying you should search for the full five minutes. But deciding to not search for your ball at all after hitting a good provisional does seem a bit fishy to me.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Declaring a ball lost…… SPOILER ALERT re Scottish Open

    Quote Originally Posted by Canary_Yellow View Post
    I think it's somewhat circumstance dependant.

    In my opinion if it's likely / there's a good chance the ball will be found the player should look for it, if it is unlikely then it is up to them whether they want to or not.


    I fall in between Capella and ChrisD on this. I don't think there is a moral obligation to spend a full 5 minutes searching for every lost ball, but if there is a decent chance of finding it you should look for it. The provisional should be a time saving exercise not a choice.
    100% agree, circumstances should dictate.

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