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  1. #171
    Q-School Graduate HughJars's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else fed up with matchplay comps against guys with hugh handicaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by butty57 View Post
    I know it has nothing to do with match-play, I was trying to say that there is more to this handicap issue.
    And I think you a slightly missing my point a little - 108 points is 32 under par - which means each players played an average of 8 shots under their handicaps.

    Golf is a game of honesty and self-rule (is that the right term?) - something can't be right somewhere along the way with such high scores.
    No, totally not. Four attempts on each hole, only two count. Birdie on a hole with a stroke, 4 points. They then blob the next, etc...

    It is a high score, but 88 is still nowehere.

  2. #172
    Q-School Graduate HughJars's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else fed up with matchplay comps against guys with hugh handicaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by butty57 View Post
    For the most part, they are not a true reflection, and it's not just my club, not just our union.
    I travel in wide circles and know many players who have false handicaps, and a number who openly admit they only play in the minimum comps per year to keep their handicap, so they can play in all sorts of events to win prizes, especially now that most prizes are vouchers.
    I know one player off 16, who has won over £500 in vouchers this season alone from open-days, always being in top 3 places wherever they have gone. It's so wrong.
    We don't have nearly as many team and pairs events in Scotland, so it's really not an issue. Most opens are individual.

  3. #173
    Tour Winner Crazyface's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else fed up with matchplay comps against guys with hugh handicaps?

    The lower H/C usually take the honors at ours. Maybe your just not good enough?
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  4. #174
    Ryder Cup Winner patricks148's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else fed up with matchplay comps against guys with hugh handicaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by HughJars View Post
    We don't have nearly as many team and pairs events in Scotland, so it's really not an issue. Most opens are individual.
    yep the only ones i know of locally are all mixed anyway. must just be an English thing
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  5. #175
    Q-School Graduate HughJars's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else fed up with matchplay comps against guys with hugh handicaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by patricks148 View Post
    yep the only ones i know of locally are all mixed anyway. must just be an English thing
    It is, down there there's very few individual opens except 5 and under. When you see 'Mens Open' guaranteed it is a 4BBB. Totally different ethos.

  6. #176
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    Re: Anyone else fed up with matchplay comps against guys with hugh handicaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by butty57 View Post
    For the most part, they are not a true reflection, and it's not just my club, not just our union.
    I travel in wide circles and know many players who have false handicaps, and a number who openly admit they only play in the minimum comps per year to keep their handicap, so they can play in all sorts of events to win prizes, especially now that most prizes are vouchers.
    I know one player off 16, who has won over £500 in vouchers this season alone from open-days, always being in top 3 places wherever they have gone. It's so wrong.
    So it's not the system that's wrong then, its the players you know that have false h/cs, yes it's wrong and they are cheats, perhaps you should bring your concerns up with your committee if you think players at your club are manipulating their h/cs.

  7. #177
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    Re: Anyone else fed up with matchplay comps against guys with hugh handicaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by HughJars View Post
    It is, down there there's very few individual opens except 5 and under. When you see 'Mens Open' guaranteed it is a 4BBB. Totally different ethos.
    I play in a few senior opens in the south of England every year some individual some doubles, plenty if you look around .

  8. #178
    Money List Winner Lord Tyrion's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone else fed up with matchplay comps against guys with hugh handicaps?

    Our matchplay final is going to be played between the current club champion, off 3 I think, and a player off 2. Not a high h/capper in site on this occasion.
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  9. #179
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    Re: Anyone else fed up with matchplay comps against guys with hugh handicaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by butty57 View Post
    Very much so!! Our main club knockout open to all handicaps is hardly ever won by anyone under 10 handicap - never by a scratch player - that has to say that something is not right, surely?
    I don't have a problem with handicaps at match-play but we lower handicaps players are not starting from a level playing field.
    The reason being is that the higher handicap player is given the difference in 'shots' starting at stroke index 1 - the toughest hole for both handicaps.
    Example.
    I'm off 8, and say I play someone off 12, we are both expected to make bogey at stroke index 1, so if he is given a shot over me at this hole then it goes without saying that he is more likely to win that hole more times than not, statistically speaking.
    So what makes this worse is that I have to give him 4 shots which he takes then at the 4 hardest holes for me - almost giving him a 4 hole start!

    In my opinion the fairer way to play match-play is to let each play have their full handicap allowance (if it has to be full), and not the difference.
    So in the same case above, we both get shots on stroke indexes 1-8, then he gets his extra 4 shots on holes 9-12, where I am expected to make pars to his bogeys, and then the other 6 holes are then played with no shot differences.
    To me this then allows the scoring on the day to make a difference but from a much fairer starting point.
    Isn't that simpler and fairer?

    Does anyone else have an opinion on my suggestions?
    How do we start a campaign to put this to the R&A?
    What you are suggesting is still full handicap allowance but with strokes given at the easiest holes rather than the hardest.

    There is a lot of merit in that.

    There is even more merit in having the SI allocated at the mathematically correct position in the round without regard for hole difficulty at all for match play- and this is actually what is recommended! Unfortunately courses don't do it because it makes stableford competion less enjoyable for handicap golfers (makes little difference to results but it does make it frustrating for many, which is entirely understandable). I believe in Australia all course have the same SI map for match play, at which point the issue as to which is more appropriate goes away.
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  10. #180
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    Re: Anyone else fed up with matchplay comps against guys with hugh handicaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tyrion View Post
    Our matchplay final is going to be played between the current club champion, off 3 I think, and a player off 2. Not a high h/capper in site on this occasion.
    Tends to be the same at out place. They will have a good day early on in the comp but the low handicaps sustained performance stands more chance of winning through by the finals. Arguably the same thing happens in medal play when you have multiple rounds, although in stableford the effect is less.
    some metal woods,
    any old irons,
    Pick up balls....

    10.8 and moving the right way again...

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