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Thread: Article 50

  1. #5831
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxholer View Post

    mmmm...I didn't vote Tory last election as I didn't like the arrogant authoritarian 'We know best' approach they have! Their recent behaviour - an attempt to increase their power (to allow even more 'arrogant authoritarian behavior' - confirms my belief!
    Well played sir, well played.....

  2. #5832
    Ryder Cup Winner Hobbit's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    The EU bill jumps from €50bn to €100bn. Is there any credibility in seeing a number double like that? I'm sceptical. I recognise that there are commitments and responsibilities, and would be very disappointed if we didn't honour them. But elements of the EU finances have been in disarray for years... give us details, and you know what, it might be a valid bill.

    Then there's the UK's share of EU assets, not country specific but things like the Parliament building in Strasbourg and Brussels. The EU are saying we're not entitled to a share. "Well, you know what, here only €40bn of the agreed €50bn."

    Do I believe Barnier? He was identified months ago as being very hard line Pro-EU, and would be very difficult to negotiate with. And to be honest, can either he or Juncker allow the other 27 member states see Brexit as anything close to successful?

    If anyone expects anything else in a negotiation other than what we've seen, and that the first numbers publicised are accurate, they're "living in another galaxy."
    Give it big humpties

  3. #5833
    Ryder Cup Winner SwingsitlikeHogan's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by ColchesterFC View Post
    SiLH - why are you prepared to believe figures from the EU/FT but not prepared to believe anything from the UK side? Surely it must be more than just your blind hatred of anything at is Tory/Brexit related. Why is what the EU says so much more believable and trustworthy than anything the UK government say?

    Do you honestly believe that our bill for leaving will be €100 billion? Or do you think it's possible that this is an opening gambit and is the EU starting point for negotiations?

    And do you think it is fair for the EU to say that the UK won't get a share of assets despite being a nett contributor for many years and so having paid a considerable amount towards these assets?
    Who said I believe what the EU/FT figures?

    But I can understand the basis upon which the Exit Payment is calculated and the rationale behind it. And I can understand where the EU want agreement of the Exit Payment to sit in the overall scheme of things. How can I understand these things? (whether I believe them or not) - because the EU has explained it to me. And I believe the FT figure as it matches a separate estimate - and is based simply on the criteria set out by the EU.

    And why might I not understand the UK position? because we are being told NOTHING. And deliberately so.

    So if you can tell me please do. What is your estimate of the Exit Payment and what is the rationale underpinning that figure? Might I suggest that 'zero' or 'they pay us' do rather seem unlikely outcomes at the moment.

    BTW - when I leave a golf club I do not expect to take with me a share of the assets of the golf club. If the golf club goes bust and I am a shareholder (which I am) - then I get a share of the club's assets according to my length of membership.
    Last edited by SwingsitlikeHogan; 03-May-2017 at 13:30.
    to infinity and beyond...

    ...well from 10.0 to 9.4 this year would be nice.

  4. #5834
    Ryder Cup Winner SwingsitlikeHogan's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbit View Post
    The EU bill jumps from €50bn to €100bn. Is there any credibility in seeing a number double like that? I'm sceptical. I recognise that there are commitments and responsibilities, and would be very disappointed if we didn't honour them. But elements of the EU finances have been in disarray for years... give us details, and you know what, it might be a valid bill.

    Then there's the UK's share of EU assets, not country specific but things like the Parliament building in Strasbourg and Brussels. The EU are saying we're not entitled to a share. "Well, you know what, here only €40bn of the agreed €50bn."

    Do I believe Barnier? He was identified months ago as being very hard line Pro-EU, and would be very difficult to negotiate with. And to be honest, can either he or Juncker allow the other 27 member states see Brexit as anything close to successful?

    If anyone expects anything else in a negotiation other than what we've seen, and that the first numbers publicised are accurate, they're "living in another galaxy."
    Which is fine - but where was the mention during the referendum debate of any Exit Payment. I actually find it amazing that even Remain seemed to miss our commitments under the 2014 MFF. And the rationale for the increase has been clearly laid out by the EU. The new figure is no mystery. The €100Bn figure was calculated by the FT (not the EU) using the revised criteria set out by the EU - and this figure is consistent with that from another source that used the same criteria.

    So what is the UK figure and on what basis is it calculated?
    to infinity and beyond...

    ...well from 10.0 to 9.4 this year would be nice.

  5. #5835
    Global Moderator Twire's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by SwingsitlikeHogan View Post


    BTW - when I leave a golf club I do not expect to take with me a share of the assets of the golf club. If the golf club goes bust and I am a shareholder (which I am) - then I get a share of the club's assets according to my length of membership.
    Using your golf club analogy, if your club has a five year improvement plan say at a cost of 2M in place, which was voted on and agreed with the members. Two years into it you decide to change clubs and leave, are you liable for the next 3 years?

    I think the tough talking EU stance could have something to do with two imminent GE's and maybe trying to sway the votes.
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  6. #5836
    Journeyman Pro jp5's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by SwingsitlikeHogan View Post
    So what is the UK figure and on what basis is it calculated?
    The bill is zero because they need us more than we need them. At least that's what I've managed to decipher from our Government thus far.

  7. #5837
    Ryder Cup Winner Hobbit's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by SwingsitlikeHogan View Post
    Which is fine - but where was the mention during the referendum debate of any Exit Payment. I actually find it amazing that even Remain seemed to miss our commitments under the 2014 MFF. And the rationale for the increase has been clearly laid out by the EU. The new figure is no mystery. The €100Bn figure was calculated by the FT (not the EU) using the revised criteria set out by the EU - and this figure is consistent with that from another source that used the same criteria.

    So what is the UK figure and on what basis is it calculated?
    And the UK Law Lords have said we don't have to pay anything. I believe they're wrong but, equally, there's middle ground in this.

    I find Barnier's and Juncker's position extreme, and I think that is posturing to almost to a fear level to ensure no other EU country goes down this route.

    I don't believe Juncker or Barnier, and I don't believe Davis and May.
    Give it big humpties

  8. #5838
    Ryder Cup Winner SwingsitlikeHogan's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by jp5 View Post
    The bill is zero because they need us more than we need them. At least that's what I've managed to decipher from our Government thus far.
    That would be good.
    to infinity and beyond...

    ...well from 10.0 to 9.4 this year would be nice.

  9. #5839
    Ryder Cup Winner SwingsitlikeHogan's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbit View Post
    And the UK Law Lords have said we don't have to pay anything. I believe they're wrong but, equally, there's middle ground in this.

    I find Barnier's and Juncker's position extreme, and I think that is posturing to almost to a fear level to ensure no other EU country goes down this route.

    I don't believe Juncker or Barnier, and I don't believe Davis and May.
    I think you are right on there probably being a middle ground, I doubt it will be zero.

    I might not believe Juncker myself...I tend to think Barnier is probably closer to the real EU position; I don't know what to think about the position of Davis and May as I don't think I know it - though I may have missed it last two weeks.
    to infinity and beyond...

    ...well from 10.0 to 9.4 this year would be nice.

  10. #5840
    Ryder Cup Winner SwingsitlikeHogan's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Twire View Post
    Using your golf club analogy, if your club has a five year improvement plan say at a cost of 2M in place, which was voted on and agreed with the members. Two years into it you decide to change clubs and leave, are you liable for the next 3 years?

    I think the tough talking EU stance could have something to do with two imminent GE's and maybe trying to sway the votes.
    If I had signed up to paying towards the improvement plan separate from my actual membership, then I suspect I might well have to keep paying.
    to infinity and beyond...

    ...well from 10.0 to 9.4 this year would be nice.

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