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Thread: Article 50

  1. #6491
    Major Champion Foxholer's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by ColchesterFC View Post
    ...do you think that they will be intelligent enough to understand the intricacies of the outcome of the negotiations?...
    You don't appear to understand (the UK's version of) Democracy - and campaigning!
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  2. #6492
    Tour Rookie IanM's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Interesting to see that the lead news item on the BBC Website today demonstrating the EU negotiating position being, "keep the EHRC Jurisdiction and keep paying your subs."

    That is because

    a) They are really screwed without our cash
    b) They hope that if they messing about for long enough, Labour might get in and cancel Brexit anyway
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  3. #6493
    Major Champion Foxholer's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by IanM View Post
    Interesting to see that the lead news item on the BBC Website today demonstrating the EU negotiating position being, "keep the EHRC Jurisdiction and keep paying your subs."
    ...
    Er...What?
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  4. #6494
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by IanM View Post
    Interesting to see that the lead news item on the BBC Website today demonstrating the EU negotiating position being, "keep the EHRC Jurisdiction and keep paying your subs."

    That is because

    a) They are really screwed without our cash
    b) They hope that if they messing about for long enough, Labour might get in and cancel Brexit anyway
    Indeed - so what do we do? SoSExEU David Davis conceded the Agenda to the EU at the off and so we have to complete negotiations on Citizen Status and Payments before we even start on the re-engagement negotiations. The EU clearly don't trust us to not change status of EU27 citizens in the UK and so want ECJ jurisdiction over these rights. So what would Leave supporters want Davis to do?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40579769
    Last edited by SwingsitlikeHogan; 12-Jul-2017 at 11:59.
    to infinity and beyond...

    ...well from 10.0 to 9.4 this year would be nice.

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  5. #6495
    Major Champion SwingsitlikeHogan's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by ColchesterFC View Post
    As you have previously stated that you will do anything you can to stop Brexit I assume that your answer to this question will be that you want to prevent us from leaving the EU, but what is it you hope to achieve from the public having a vote on the negotiated terms?

    Having suggested several times that people that voted leave didn't know what they were voting for do you think that they will be intelligent enough to understand the intricacies of the outcome of the negotiations? And what happens if the public vote and reject the terms agreed? Do we stay in the EU, stay in temporarily while the politicians try to renegotiate acceptable terms or leave with no agreement in place?

    How many options are you going to have on the voting slip for your proposed public vote?

    1. Reject the terms and stay in the EU
    2. Reject the terms and renegotiate
    3. Accept the terms and leave the EU
    4. Reject the terms and leave the EU

    If you simply have accept or reject the negotiated terms there will be no way to quantify why people voted the way they did whether rejection was based on wanting to remain in or wanting to leave. And what happens if each of the options achieve around 25% of the vote? Where do you go from there?
    That there would problems associated with a vote on the Ts&Cs of UK leaving does not it itself mean that a vote could not or should not happen.

    The Great British public is not stupid, and if it can understand the breadth, depth and complexity of Leave it would be a piece of cake were the Terms, Conditions and Expected Outcomes of Brexit laid out in a Leaving the EU - What it will Mean document that would be distributed to us all well in advance of the vote - basically at the same time as the official negotiated terms are distributed to the EU27 for their ratification. We'd all have about six months to read, digest and ask questions on the detail - and we'd all know just what we'd be voting for - and no-body could say otherwise.
    to infinity and beyond...

    ...well from 10.0 to 9.4 this year would be nice.

    And with just the October medal to go - I've got to 8.3

    Job done

  6. #6496
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    Re: Article 50

    So you've answered one of the questions I asked, what about the other questions? Do you have any answers to them? I didn't suggest a vote couldn't or shouldn't take place - but as you've raised it, personally I think that a vote in the HoC is sufficient and I don't think the public should get a vote on it

    And an extra one for you, if the UK public voted to accept the terms of leaving and at the same time the rEU 27 countries rejected them (or vice versa) what would happen then?

  7. #6497
    Tour Rookie IanM's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by SwingsitlikeHogan View Post
    The EU clearly don't trust us to not change status of EU27 citizens in the UK and so want ECJ jurisdiction over these rights.
    Looks more like a tool to retain control rather than one of trust to me, - so I'd expect Davis to act from a position of "As the UK is no longer a EU Member, ECJ jurisdiction no longer applies."

    Why would we treat EU Citizens already here badly, when we know that reciprocal penalties would be swiftly applied to UK Expats? (although the ratios are massively different! )

    ooh, there's that reciprocal word again!
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  8. #6498
    Tour Rookie IanM's Avatar
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxholer View Post
    Er...What?
    sorry ECJ not EHRC, which was not only the wrong item but had the letters in the wrong order! (apart from all the errors, it was perfect!)
    A bit Old School, Taylor Made Woods & Ping Irons! Jetspeeds and i25s
    Scotty flat stick
    Somedays they behave, others less so!
    SLDR sitting in the garage to remind the driver, "he can be replaced!"

  9. #6499
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by SwingsitlikeHogan View Post
    That there would problems associated with a vote on the Ts&Cs of UK leaving does not it itself mean that a vote could not or should not happen.

    The Great British public is not stupid, and if it can understand the breadth, depth and complexity of Leave it would be a piece of cake were the Terms, Conditions and Expected Outcomes of Brexit laid out in a Leaving the EU - What it will Mean document that would be distributed to us all well in advance of the vote - basically at the same time as the official negotiated terms are distributed to the EU27 for their ratification. We'd all have about six months to read, digest and ask questions on the detail - and we'd all know just what we'd be voting for - and no-body could say otherwise.
    And there would be the equivalent 'staying in the EU' document too then, as a comparison. Both written by a fully independent commission and totally without bias or spin.

    Yeah, thats going to happen.

  10. #6500
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    Re: Article 50

    Quote Originally Posted by IanM View Post
    Interesting to see that the lead news item on the BBC Website today demonstrating the EU negotiating position being, "keep the EHRC Jurisdiction and keep paying your subs."

    That is because

    a) They are really screwed without our cash
    b) They hope that if they messing about for long enough, Labour might get in and cancel Brexit anyway
    Quote Originally Posted by IanM View Post
    sorry ECJ not EHRC, which was not only the wrong item but had the letters in the wrong order! (apart from all the errors, it was perfect!)
    Er...No!

    While the cash is obviously helpful, they are definitely NOT 'screwed' without it!

    If they 'mess around' for long enough, one of the clauses of Article 50 simply cuts in and UK leaves - without any deal!

    Whether there's another GE, and whether Labour would/does win it - and then subsequently cancels Brexit! - is absolutely beyond EU control! I believe every one of those 3 conditions is actually very unlikely!
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